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Afghan Experience in our Trg System

pbi

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Quagmire said:
One of the keys is to keep the boy's and girls together and not send them to schools to teach or on courses for a while.  Let them get back to Canada and simmer with their mates for awhile.  A long while.

I agree that we need to give these soldiers time to gear down, to bond with their families again, and to enjoy the peace (even the boredom...) of garrison life for a while. In the beginning, the best place for them to be will be amongst the soldiers they served with. No question.

But, I think it is very important that some of these officers and NCOs most definitely do go and teach while the knowledge is fresh and useful, so that our Army (all MOCs-not just the Inf) can benefit from their experience. These soldiers are our new experts on modern combat, and if we don't use them to make our Army better (and to prepare future rotations) then we are committing professional sin, and failing to honour the sacrifices made by those who were killed or injured in the process of gaining this combat experience. In past wars our Army made a regular practice of bringing combat experienced officers and NCOs out of the line and posting them to training establishments: we must not fail to do this. Canadian soldiers heading into combat need every advantage we can give them.

Cheers
 

Scoobie Newbie

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I agree with you HOWEVER will the schools let them teach the new stuff or will the all knowing Inf School decide?
 

Blakey

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Quagmire said:
I agree with you HOWEVER will the schools let them teach the new stuff or will the all knowing Inf School decide?
Although some of these Officers and NCO's might not look favourably upon a posting there, IMHO, that's were some should be sent, the Inf School. What better a place to make a change than that?
 

Gunner

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Quagmire said:
I agree with you HOWEVER will the schools let them teach the new stuff or will the all knowing Inf School decide?

Schools should teach within doctrinal guidelines as our doctrine should not be that different from what is going on overseas.  TTPs are a different story and instructor's with recent cbt experience will hopefully bring something new and fresh to the table...until the next rotation of soldiers return from overseas with updated TTP's, etc, etc.  As someone much wiser than I stated, you are only as current as the last day you were in theatre.  The theatre will continue to evolve and our response (our TTP's) will evolve with it.
 

Scoobie Newbie

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Agreed but does this mean we need to look at changing how the
BIQ is run?  Ranges, exercises (yes I realize this has started) etc?

I know I could benifit from shooting moving targets in both vehicles as well as on the grounds.
 

Gunner

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Quagmire said:
Agreed but does this mean we need to look at changing how the
BIQ is run?  Ranges, exercises (yes I realize this has started) etc?

I know I could benifit from shooting moving targets in both vehicles as well as on the grounds.

I can't comment on what the BIQ looks like any more other than to say that I know they are changing alot of the course to reflect our doctrine of a COE vice strictly a cold war focus.  Quite a bit of money has been spent on urban warfare sites, etc.  I can't tell you if it is effective.

Does a soldier need to know how to fire his personal weapon from moving vehicle?  From a LAV?  From an armd G Wagon? 
 

Gunner

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Quagmire said:
By vehicle I meant 25mm, C6 coax, 50 mounted, not really C7.

Seen (I was wondering...).  Is that not part of your field firing exercises?  I have to admit that most my experience has been with Coyote....
 

Scoobie Newbie

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RWS was static, LUVW not to sure, LAV sure there are battle runs but IMO its not very good, could be a lot better.  You know Shilo though, not a lot of room to maneuver.
 

Gunner

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The last time I was on the ranges in Shilo was in 1993  :-[ and the Germans were still training BGs there...  I always felt the impact areas were quite large as compared to Wx and other trg areas in Canada (all except Suffield).  Have they restricted the ranges due to environmental concerns? 



 

Scoobie Newbie

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There is a lot of places we can't go do to you damn gunners. ;D
Also the trace for a moving LAV is quite big (so I'm told).  There is only one place to do a platoon level LAV attack here and I'm not sure how much of range is closed do to the movement box.
Don't get me on hunting season.  :mad:

On a more positive note the OC wants to do live fire convoy ops (yeah good luck) which I hope works out.
 

Gunner

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We had the hunting season and the Germans from Spring to Fall....

If there is the will to do something, there is usually a way.  Remember to factor in CMTC on your road to high readiness in terms of live fire, etc.  CMTC is coming along and will hopefully provide an excellent collective training environment for the BGs going overseas. 
 

Scoobie Newbie

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Seen however the more trigger time we get at home hopefully leads us to spend less time elsewhere.

Pretty sad when the base CO says the base will accomidate all comers (regardless of training) for 3 plus weeks.
 

Gunner

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Shilo has alwasy been like that (base commander notwithstanding).  The reason, IIRC, was due to a large percentage of the training area that is leased from provincial government.  The eastern part of the ranges forms part of the larger protected area known as Spruce Woods Provincial Park).  Part of the arrangement has the training areas open to hunters during hunting season.

 

Scoobie Newbie

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Kinda sucks when your hands are tied (training wise) by these kind of policies.  Oh well carry on.
 

MPIKE

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Quagmire said:
I agree with you HOWEVER will the schools let them teach the new stuff or will the all knowing Inf School decide?

I completed my DP3 Patrol Commanders course in G-town with the Armour school in the early summer.  I can attest that the DS are the new gen of staff with current operational experience.  Although the school(s) beats to its own drum at times, these guys are bringing the lessons learned into the training system.  I for one feel better for it and more capable.  Get one of the new DS out on the training grounds away from the classroom/TTPs  and the real lessons come out.

With all the experience that is available now the Schools can't help but to adapt to the new army.  Things are changing.
 

silentbutdeadly

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Alot of guys returning are getting posted to the schools. There at least 4 Snr Nco's and my Pl Comd going to the Infantry School, so that will help the system learn more  and i have also asked for a posting there.
 

C/10

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Being a reservist I have to say that any extra instruction that comes my way from the guys returning from theatre is more than welcome. I am looking forward to learning from the guys who are on their way back, and applying it to what is already in place.
 

McG

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pbi said:
... I think it is very important that some of these officers and NCOs most definitely do go and teach while the knowledge is fresh and useful, so that our Army (all MOCs-not just the Inf) can benefit from their experience.
Not to mention that these soldiers should be getting pushed into jobs where they will start redefining & developing our doctrine (places like LFDTS) and where their knowledge of the theatre can imporve our national level support (like the CEFCOM desk officers for Afghanistan).

Quagmire said:
Agreed but does this mean we need to look at changing how the BIQ is run?  Ranges, exercises (yes I realize this has started) etc?
We should also be looking at recently returned Sr NCOs & Offr to sit on writting/review boards for qualification standards & course training plans.

 
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