Alberta government thread

[MilEME09]

Making a new thread for everything else going on in Alberta these days such as the invoking of the NWC

Which has now lead to Operation total recall, and people try to organize recall petitions for various UCP MLA's, As of this writing, two have been approved, otehrs are in progress

Operation Total Recall — Organize Local Recall Campaigns

Grassroots hub to organize riding-by-riding recall efforts for the 44 Alberta MLAs who supported using the Notwithstanding Clause against not just teachers, but all Alberta workers. Find your MLA, join your local team, and take action.

operationtotalrecall.ca

 

[Jarnhamar]

Throw them in water and see if they float.

 

[HavokFour]

Making a new thread for everything else going on in Alberta these days such as the invoking of the NWC

Which has now lead to Operation total recall, and people try to organize recall petitions for various UCP MLA's, As of this writing, two have been approved, otehrs are in progress

Operation Total Recall — Organize Local Recall Campaigns

Grassroots hub to organize riding-by-riding recall efforts for the 44 Alberta MLAs who supported using the Notwithstanding Clause against not just teachers, but all Alberta workers. Find your MLA, join your local team, and take action.

operationtotalrecall.ca

Excellent timing, thread might be seeing a lot of use soon.

UCP MLAs slash Elections Alberta $13.5M request

Alberta’s chief electoral officer asked for an additional $13.5 million Monday, saying it’s urgently needed to process a rush of recall and referendum petitions. As Sean Amato reports, UCP MLAs approved just $1.5 million, for now.

edmonton.citynews.ca

 

[CBH99]

Throw them in water and see if they float.

Well that's certainly one way to...ummmmmmm...??

Bah, who cares. I'm in.

Making a new thread for everything else going on in Alberta these days such as the invoking of the NWC

Which has now lead to Operation total recall, and people try to organize recall petitions for various UCP MLA's, As of this writing, two have been approved, otehrs are in progress

Operation Total Recall — Organize Local Recall Campaigns

Grassroots hub to organize riding-by-riding recall efforts for the 44 Alberta MLAs who supported using the Notwithstanding Clause against not just teachers, but all Alberta workers. Find your MLA, join your local team, and take action.

operationtotalrecall.ca

I understand why the government finally invoked the NWC, and I think that was one of the only courses available to them.

They had a generous offer on the table, and the union was wasting everybody's time by dithering on around it.


We also have to remember that there were also a fair number of teachers who were quite vocal about not wanting to go on strike...but those voices didn't get a lot of media attention.

This has been union driven from the start.


...


Something that should be noted when discussing this is - the average salary of an Alberta secondary school teacher (which I wanna say includes junior high + high school) is approx $52/hr.

And that doesn't reflect the 12% pay increase they are now going to be getting.

Not exactly chump change...


The government had offered a pay raise from 12% to 17% - and the union sat on that offer, because they had been demanding more.

They could have requested an extension of their standard 72hr window to respond - they'd done that plenty of times already. But the union didn't respond at all.

...

I think we all agree that teachers deserve competitive salaries, managable class sizes, and schools that are in good repair - I don't think the government disagrees with that at all.

But the strike was causing mayhem for working families (aka everybody) and the government had to do something to bring about it's end.

They were even preparing to pay each family (that has a child enrolled in public school) $100 a week to help with any additional childcare costs the families were incurring.

It was going to get pretty expensive pretty quickly - not to mention all that classroom time lost will mean having to shave off the graduation requirements for the current academic year as it is.

If the strike had dragged on for longer than they'd have to look at shortening the summer holidays too.

...

Personally, I am all for people going on strike if they feel they have reasonable expectations/demands from their workplace, and those aren't being met despite efforts being made to rectify things.

But in this case, I don't know what other option the government had when considering how disruptive the strike was for parents/families and their finances?

Plus the follow-on consequences, re adjusting academic year graduation dates?




(P.S. Great idea on creating this thread)

(P.P.S. I didn't follow the strike particularly closely, so everything I said above could be utter nonsense. I'll do some reading this aft, just sitting here waiting to go into court this morning)

 

[MilEME09]

Excellent timing, thread might be seeing a lot of use soon.

UCP MLAs slash Elections Alberta $13.5M request

Alberta’s chief electoral officer asked for an additional $13.5 million Monday, saying it’s urgently needed to process a rush of recall and referendum petitions. As Sean Amato reports, UCP MLAs approved just $1.5 million, for now.

edmonton.citynews.ca

Whats funny is some UCP MLA's have commented they want to move to remove the recall legislation in the spring, gee wouldn't have anything to do with the fact 7 of them are facing recall right now

 

[MilEME09]

Personally, I am all for people going on strike if they feel they have reasonable expectations/demands from their workplace, and those aren't being met despite efforts being made to rectify things.

But in this case, I don't know what other option the government had when considering how disruptive the strike was for parents/families and their finances?

Plus the follow-on consequences, re adjusting academic year graduation dates?

The UCP put the wage issue front and center, teachers wanted to make it about the cap,and complexity issue. The major sticking point about the cap was that the last 4 contracts teachers had (UCP, NDP, and former conservative) class size caps were verbally promised the gov would address it, and never did. This time the ATA wanted it in writing as part of the contract, so the gov was legally obligated this time.

 

[Remius]

Whats funny is some UCP MLA's have commented they want to move to remove the recall legislation in the spring, gee wouldn't have anything to do with the fact 7 of them are facing recall right now

All good until it affects you…

 

[foresterab]

The UCP put the wage issue front and center, teachers wanted to make it about the cap,and complexity issue. The major sticking point about the cap was that the last 4 contracts teachers had (UCP, NDP, and former conservative) class size caps were verbally promised the gov would address it, and never did. This time the ATA wanted it in writing as part of the contract, so the gov was legally obligated this time.

Further more the public statements over hiring 3000 teachers they wouldn't define in the actual negotiations as new/additional or just hire 3,000 (or about 2 years normal hiring numbers in context). Having been burned many times in the past they wanted things in writing and the gov't refused to consider.

Before things even kicked off class sizes were brought forward...Alberta didn't want to include
Mediation - could only be done on proposals brought forward initially and because Alberta did not recognize it up front it couldn't be discussed.

So the governments offer to go back to enhanced mediation in late October wouldn't have changed any discussions...because the key issue still wasn't eligible for mediation.

They did the same thing with another union on working from home...refused to include it in the agreement because no changes needed...60 days after agreement all working from home is cancelled.

Both sides have to bargain honestly and fairly...and if you keep changing the rules afterwards it makes the next round even tougher. Not a huge union fan personally due to the disconnect sometimes on economics and adaptability to changes but also not a big fan of any employer making agreements they don't tend to honor or worse yet refusing to discuss things honestly knowing they have the legislation to do whatever they want.
It's not just governments and unions either though....businesses don't stay open if they don't make money and when I think of some other large business dealings it's always been interesting to see how things change over time.

Historically union jobs were often higher wages but were also driven to making the business succeed and somewhere along the line it's shifted from joint leadership to "what's in it for me" from both sides - wages/profits/employment numbers etc.

Legislating a union - especially a public service back to work - fine. That is your right as an employer with legislation just like a business to decide to keep operating in that area. But the pouring of gasoline on the fire by invoking the not withstanding clause + imposing the contract + removing the right to protest....that's a long term damage that many will not forget.

 

[McG]

This has been union driven from the start.

I mean, “this” is a strike by a labour unit in negotiation with its employer. That is how unions get their leverage.

 

[QV]

Legislating a union - especially a public service back to work - fine. That is your right as an employer with legislation just like a business to decide to keep operating in that area. But the pouring of gasoline on the fire by invoking the not withstanding clause + imposing the contract + removing the right to protest....that's a long term damage that many will not forget.

If striking meant no person received a certain kind of service, like mail, fine strike away. But in this case, this strike prolonged any more would have detrimental impacts to the learning and schooling of all the public schooled kids in the province, arguably there is already damage. The long term impact would be on the kids and a lot of people won't forget that.

Presently here is a AI summary of AB education performance: Alberta students consistently achieve high scores in reading and science, and in some international assessments, Alberta ranks among the top globally in these areas. However, Alberta's performance in math is often lower than Quebec's, although it remains competitive with other provinces like Ontario.

All in all, not too bad given present class size considerations.

 

[MilEME09]

If striking meant no person received a certain kind of service, like mail, fine strike away. But in this case, this strike prolonged any more would have detrimental impacts to the learning and schooling of all the public schooled kids in the province, arguably there is already damage. The long term impact would be on the kids and a lot of people won't forget that.

Presently here is a AI summary of AB education performance: Alberta students consistently achieve high scores in reading and science, and in some international assessments, Alberta ranks among the top globally in these areas. However, Alberta's performance in math is often lower than Quebec's, although it remains competitive with other provinces like Ontario.

All in all, not too bad given present class size considerations.

but at what cost? most teachers are burnt out working 50 or even 60 + hours a week, and when AB got rid of separate classes for those with unique learning needs, it caused even more stress for teachers. My own son in grade 3 needs extra help, he still hasn't gotten it because they dont have the EA's or space to assist him. It's something that really needs to be addressed, the teachers wanted it addressed but the province refused to discuss it. While average scores are high in most, how many students are below average and falling behind? thats a problem

 

[RangerRay]

To me, the biggest beef is having a settlement imposed rather than going to arbitration. I think the Province had to use the NWC because the SCC read in a right to strike that does not exist and Parliament should remain supreme when the SCC does something stupid. But to also impose a settlement on top of that was just dickish. No doubt driven by some ideologues in the government who would be happy to burn public education to the ground.

 

[MilEME09]

To me, the biggest beef is having a settlement imposed rather than going to arbitration. I think the Province had to use the NWC because the SCC read in a right to strike that does not exist and Parliament should remain supreme when the SCC does something stupid. But to also impose a settlement on top of that was just dickish. No doubt driven by some ideologues in the government who would be happy to burn public education to the ground.

problem why the ATA didnt want to go to mediation was the government is because the government said they would only discuss what they already offered, and they had not offered anything about class sizes or complexity which were the big issues for the ATA.

 

[RangerRay]

problem why the ATA didnt want to go to mediation was the government is because the government said they would only discuss what they already offered, and they had not offered anything about class sizes or complexity which were the big issues for the ATA.

Historically, when a union is legislated back to work, it is usually mandated to go to arbitration. It just seems the government was being dickish by imposing a settlement in their legislation. The use of the NWC was and extra kick to the nads.

 

[brihard]

Historically, when a union is legislated back to work, it is usually mandated to go to arbitration. It just seems the government was being dickish by imposing a settlement in their legislation. The use of the NWC was and extra kick to the nads.

NWC and an imposed contract is... Wow. That's the provincial government sticking both middle fingers up to labour and saying 'bring it'. I didn't realize til I listened to The Line's episode that they also imposed the terms and conditions of the contract. I'm definitely not cool with them legislating the direct T&C of employment. If you're going to legislate return to work, neutral binding arbitration should be the way to go.

 

[OldSolduer]

Throw them in water and see if they float.

Like a duck or very small rocks????