Alberta government thread

[Altair]

I expect this is where you are going to get mad at me. But I am 100% against male to female transgender folks playing women's sports with a special emphasis on contact and combat sports. The solution is a separate league IMHO.

Also this is World Rugbys stance:

Transgender Guidelines | World Rugby

World Rugby guidelines on transgender.

www.world.rugby

Transgender Guidelines | World Rugby

World Rugby guidelines on transgender.

www.world.rugby

I too am agaisnt male to female transgender individuals playing in female sports, BUT, the caveat being males who have gone through puberty.

Before puberty, differences in male and female athletic performance is negligible.

It's puberty where males bulk up and build on those advantages year after year. And despite hormone therapy lessening some of those advantages, there will always be some lingering performance disparity.

But if a male identifies as a female at age 7 or 8, is on puberty blockers at age 11-12, and transitions at 17-18, they will have more or less the same performance as any other woman.

Zero issues with those transgender individuals playing female sports. And I believe most sporting categories follow that same logic.

Yet laws like Alberta lock these trans kids into puberty.

 

[Altair]

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/world-athletics-trans-ban-debate-1.6790454

World Athletics says its decision this week to ban transgender women from competing in elite female sport is based on the "overarching need to protect the female category."

But the organization's president Sebastian Coe says the move to exclude trans athletes who have gone through male puberty is about more than that. Coe says the move is about fairness over inclusion, and comes after months of being "inundated" by stakeholders that no other alternative would be acceptable.

So there is a 7 year old male in Alberta who identifies as a female and wants to be a boxer. Has diagnosed gender disphoria. How does this hypothetical transgender young person achieve their goal under Alberta's new laws?

 

[Halifax Tar]

I too am agaisnt male to female transgender individuals playing in female sports, BUT, the caveat being males who have gone through puberty.

Before puberty, differences in male and female athletic performance is negligible.

It's puberty where males bulk up and build on those advantages year after year. And despite hormone therapy lessening some of those advantages, there will always be some lingering performance disparity.

But if a male identifies as a female at age 7 or 8, is on puberty blockers at age 11-12, and transitions at 17-18, they will have more or less the same performance as any other woman.

Zero issues with those transgender individuals playing female sports.

My daughter has played minis and JR rugby since she was 2. She is just about to be 13 now. With the exception of when I am deployed I have coached her almost every year.

I now coach Jr Rugby at the U14 level, and this is the grade we separate by gender as contact is now in every facet of the game. rucking, mauling, tackling, scrumming.

I stand by my absolute statement. I am 100% against male to female transgender folks playing women's sports with a special emphasis on contact and combat sports. The solution is a separate league IMHO.

Before puberty, differences in male and female athletic performance is negligible.

That is not my observation at all.

The point of divergence is earlier than that in the majority. I would say U10 is where the divide happens. I have had a couple individual girls who were the exception and could keep up with the boys in pure athletic ability.

In case you'd like to see this our club's Jr program:

Mini Rugby – Halifax Tars RFC

halifaxtars.ca

 

[Altair]

My daughter has played minis and JR rugby since she was 2. She is just about to be 13 now. With the exception of when I am deployed I have coached her almost every year.

I now coach Jr Rugby at the U14 level, and this is the grade we separate by gender as contact is now in every facet of the game. rucking, mauling, tackling, scrumming.

I stand by my absolute statement. I am 100% against male to female transgender folks playing women's sports with a special emphasis on contact and combat sports. The solution is a separate league IMHO.



That is not my observation at all.

The point of divergence is earlier than that in the majority. I would say U10 is where the divide happens. I have had a couple individual girls who were the exception and could keep up with the boys in pure athletic ability.

In case you'd like to see this our club's Jr program:

Mini Rugby – Halifax Tars RFC

halifaxtars.ca

Understanding Puberty

Puberty was awkward enough when you were the one going through it. So how can you help your kids through all the changes?

kidshealth.org

Most females will start puberty when they’re 8 to 13 years old, and most males will start between 9 and 14.

So in your experience, would this track with your observation that U10 is the start of the divergence?

I know for my own daughter, age 10, she was the tallest in class for every year, boy or girl, until this year, where the boys are starting to match her.

Also the sudden need for regular deodorant use tells me puberty has probably started.

So again, 10-11 year old goes on puberty blockers, and as per World Athletics,or as the link you shared, rugby, those born as male can participate in female categories so long as they have not undergone male puberty, how does a young transgender young person in Alberta reach their goal?

You can advocate for a category that doesn't exist all you want, but the fact remains it doesn't exist. Unless you want to point me to where the transgender category exists in the Olympics.

 

[Lumber]

League 1: Females, plus trans-females who transitioned pre-puberty.

League 2: Males and trans-females who transitioned post-puberty.

Why wouldn't this work?

 

[Quirky]

League 1: Females, plus trans-females who transitioned pre-puberty.

League 2: Males and trans-females who transitioned post-puberty.

Why wouldn't this work?

How about a Male league, Female League and Trans League.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

And the scenario I keep circling back to, and not a soul has addressed it.

Ban those born as male from female sports if they have undergone puberty.

Ban puberty blockers from those born as male, forcing them to go through puberty

Can you explain how a trans kid who wants to be a female runner can do so with this system in place?

I don’t understand your question.

I am not proposing a system.

I made a post about my personal observations and the conclusions that I drew from my lived experience.

But, you may have just made my point about the “zealot” line that I used.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Understanding Puberty

Puberty was awkward enough when you were the one going through it. So how can you help your kids through all the changes?

kidshealth.org

So in your experience, would this track with your observation that U10 is the start of the divergence?

Sure.

I know for my own daughter, age 10, she was the tallest in class for every year, boy or girl, until this year, where the boys are starting to match her.

Also the sudden need for regular deodorant use tells me puberty has probably started.

So again, 10-11 year old goes on puberty blockers, and as per World Athletics,or as the link you shared, rugby, those born as male can participate in female categories so long as they have not undergone male puberty, how does a young transgender young person in Alberta reach their goal?

I remain unchanged. I am 100% against male to female transgender folks playing women's sports with a special emphasis on contact and combat sports.

I will add I am happy using the U14 grade as the separation of genders point, for my sport specifically.

You can advocate for a category that doesn't exist all you want, but the fact remains it doesn't exist. Unless you want to point me to where the transgender category exists in the Olympics.

I have no vested interest in transgender athletics at this point. But if they wish to advocate for their own leagues/competitions I would support that.

 

[Altair]

Sure.



I remain unchanged. I am 100% against male to female transgender folks playing women's sports with a special emphasis on contact and combat sports.

I will add I am happy using the U14 grade as the separation of genders point, for my sport specifically.

I'll give you the credit to own the fact that you personally don't give a damn about trans individuals in even the most basic of circumstances, never mind all the other nuances.

That said, I am glad that even the sport you coach allows trans individuals who have not gone through puberty to play in the female category, because, you know...science.

Also happy that you live in a province that doesn't arbitrarily decide to carpet bans things like puberty blockers.

I have no vested interest in transgender athletics at this point. But if they wish to advocate for their own leagues/competitions I would support that.

Segregation instead of reasonable accommodation.

1950s America would be proud.

 

[Altair]

League 1: Females, plus trans-females who transitioned pre-puberty.

League 2: Males and trans-females who transitioned post-puberty.

Why wouldn't this work?

The hormone treatments for post puberty trans females leave them weaker than men and stronger than women.

The worse of both worlds.

 

[Altair]

How about a Male league, Female League and Trans League.

The solution for real world individuals is something that doesn't exist.

Noble.

Hey trans kid. The answer to your question is....click your heels together three times and wish for a trans league.

Or don't live in Alberta, that also works.