Alexandre Bissonnette: QC Mosque shooter- 29 Jan 2017

[Loachman]

If guns are difficult to get, it will have a dissuasive effect those prone to commiting a crime.  It will never stop violent crime entirely; there will always be people going the extra mile to get the weapons and shoot people.  But it will, imo, certainly reduce the likelihood of occurrence.

There is a big difference between "difficult to get" and "difficult to get legally". Firearms are always easier to get illegally rather than legally, here and in the US.

Inability to obtain firearms will not deter someone bent on killing. See Nice (truck), Air India (bomb), World Trade Centre 2001 (knives and airliners), Blue Bird Cafe in Montreal (gasoline and matches), a nerve gas attack in the Tokyo subway, the  Alfred P Murrah Building bombing in Oklahoma City (fertilizer bomb), and some mass slashings with swords and knives in Japan and China.

 

[gryphonv]

I personally feel this fits more a hate crime than a terrorist act.

I don't know all the details, and I'm sure nobody here does either. But he attacked one ethnic group, he discriminated against one race/religion, But I do agree it may be politically motivated. There is a lot of backlash to the Syrian Immigrant in Canada. You don't have to go far to see it,  it could be he took a perverted view of that and made it into this. Which is much different than saying I don't like immigrants.

I always felt Terrorist acts are indiscriminate in who they kill, they just want to kill as many as possible. They would care more about a person being a Canadian, than being a Muslim, or Jew, or Christian.

I'm sure it'll come out in time. But my gut feeling this is classic Racism.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

I note one of the victims was a prof from his school so the motives might be mixed and perhaps personal. I would call this a reprehensible Hate Crime and not terrorism. I suspect the government is not letting an opportunity to "frame the discussion" get away from them, hence their quickness to latch onto the word. But of course I am a cynical old fart.

No. You are just grasping at straw. There is a big difference between a school and a university.

The professor is a Laval University Agriculture department professor. The alleged perpetrator was in the Social Sciences department. There are about 60,000 students at Laval University, with a campus about two and a half square kilometres filled with about 30 different pavilions. There is about 800 meters between the Social Sciences pavilion and the Agriculture one, and in Quebec's francophone universities, there are no such things as requirement for a certain number of "electives" out of department. The chances that he knew that prof., while not nil, are pretty remote.

 

[quadrapiper]

I note one of the victims was a prof from his school so the motives might be mixed and perhaps personal. I would call this a reprehensible Hate Crime and not terrorism. I suspect the government is not letting an opportunity to "frame the discussion" get away from them, hence their quickness to latch onto the word. But of course I am a cynical old fart.

With the initial reports of two shooters, labeling it terrorism at the outset makes a certain degree of non-"framing" sense.

 

[gryphonv]

With the initial reports of two shooters, labeling it terrorism at the outset makes a certain degree of non-"framing" sense.

Terrorism though is also a very powerful word today, it draws eyes. Racism not so much. Seeing someone called a racist, people envision groups or person that are usually very localized, small with a lack of any real power. Calling people a terrorist, people envision hordes of religious fanatics with far international reach, sleeper cells, planning wars and all sorts of things.

This guy seems like a recluse who acted alone, no instruction, just a hate of the world, and certain groups.

 

[mariomike]

FOX NEWS
"Suspect in Quebec mosque terror attack was of Moroccan origin"
https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/826120752529301504
Posted:  9:31 AM - 30 Jan 2017
Fox News FINALLY took it down at 1923 Hrs. EST- 31 Jan 2017.

Trudeau’s PMO takes on Fox News over a ‘false and misleading’ tweet about the Quebec mosque shooting
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/trudeaus-pmo-takes-on-fox-news-over-a-fox-tweet-about-the-mosque-shooting
“These tweets by Fox News dishonour the memory of the six victims and their families by spreading misinformation, playing identity politics, and perpetuating fear and division within our communities,”

See also,
https://www.google.ca/search?q=trudeau+%22fox+news%22&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-CA%3AIE-Address&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&biw=1536&bih=723&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1%2F31%2F2017%2Ccd_max%3A1%2F31%2F2017&tbm=#tbs=cdr:1%2Ccd_min:1%2F31%2F2017%2Ccd_max:1%2F31%2F2017&q=trudeau+%22fox+news%22+%22Moroccan+origin%22

 

[Scott]

Terrorism though is also a very powerful word today, it draws eyes. Racism not so much. Seeing someone called a racist, people envision groups or person that are usually very localized, small with a lack of any real power. Calling people a terrorist, people envision hordes of religious fanatics with far international reach, sleeper cells, planning wars and all sorts of things.

This guy seems like a recluse who acted alone, no instruction, just a hate of the world, and certain groups.

You're awfully concerned with flags and words.

Edit: typo

 

[Retired AF Guy]

I personally feel this fits more a hate crime than a terrorist act.

I always felt Terrorist acts are indiscriminate in who they kill, they just want to kill as many as possible. They would care more about a person being a Canadian, than being a Muslim, or Jew, or Christian.

I'm sure it'll come out in time. But my gut feeling this is classic Racism.

Yes, terrorist attacks, are random, and they are designed to cause mass casualties, but they fit into the overall terrorist strategy, which to paraphrase what Infanteer posted earlier is "The illegal use of violence against innocent people, to gain media attention and achieve political change."

For exampkle, the 2004 Madrid Train bombings.

 

[Kat Stevens]

This monster didn't want to effect change or influence opinion.  He just wanted to kill people he didn't like.

 

[brihard]

Terrorism and hate crimes are not mutually exclusive. Mass violence may be one or the other or neither or both. I suspect this will be both.

I also suspect that between the arrest and his appearance in court, this pathetic little man-baby probably spilled his guts in an interrogation. I have absolutely nothing to go on in saying that, it's just a gut feel. He was a coward.

My bet right now? We'll see the whole story come out in an agreed statement of facts as part of a guilty plea. Politics will be a part of his motivation, along with a more base racism. He will not mount a successful insanity defense.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Some of the latest via CBC.ca ...

A shy chess-player, a bullied introvert, a moderate conservative turned far-right troll — these are the descriptions being offered of Alexandre Bissonnette since he was accused of perpetrating a deadly shooting at a Quebec City mosque.

Bissonnette looked nervous during his brief court appearance on Monday. He didn't say a word and shuffled in his handcuffs; before being escorted out, he was charged with 11 counts of murder and attempted murder.

He could still face more charges as the RCMP examine whether to add terrorism to the list of offences.

Police believe the shooter entered the Islamic cultural centre in the Quebec City suburb of Sainte-Foy just before 8 p.m. on Sunday, equipped with a long gun.

The gun jammed, police sources told Radio-Canada, prompting the shooter to leave and return with a nine-millimetre handgun.

Bissonnette was arrested later that night, on a bridge heading to Île d'Orléans, about five kilometres away from the mosque.

In his car, the sources said, officers found a nine-millimetre handgun registered to Bissonnette. That gun had a 15-round capacity ...

... The Canadian Press ...

Along the sleepy suburban street where the man charged in the Quebec City mosque shooting was raised, neighbours say as a kid he played baseball, swam in backyard pools and explored the nearby forest like many local boys.

Alexandre Bissonnette also developed a passion for guns as far back as his pre-teens, recalled one man who has lived across from the 27-year-old suspect’s childhood home for about three decades.

Rejean Bussieres, whose son is about the same age, remembered how the Bissonnette boy used to shoot his pellet gun at trees in the woods behind his house as a youngster.

“Alexandre really liked guns,” said Bussieres, who added that his son told him Bissonnette had a gun when he was about 12 years old.

“He showed one to my son and my son didn’t like that.” ...

... and globalnews.ca:

Two people remain in critical condition in a Quebec City hospital following the horrific attack on a mosque Sunday during evening prayers that left six men dead and 19 others injured.

Speaking with reporters Tuesday morning, hospital officials said two people remain in critical condition with abdominal injuries. As of late Monday, five people were still in hospital.

Officials said Tuesday one victim was released from l’Hôpital de l’Enfant-Jésus and another two individuals were still recovering in stable condition. Each victim suffered from three to six bullet wounds, a hospital official said. Doctors expect the two victims in critical condition will recover from their injuries ...

Meanwhile, "Fox News apologizes for erroneous Quebec terror tweet".  Let's see if that slows down the "False Flag Machine" on social media -- <sarcasm>yeah, I'm suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure it'll close the door on that angle </sarcasm>.

And here's Rebel Media's take ...

... Twelve hours after the attack, the official media narrative involved not one but two suspects who allegedly yelled, “Allahu Akbar!” while carrying out their murderous rampage.

Witnesses were interviewed across various media outlets. Witnesses who claimed to have been inside the mosque at the time of the attack. All alleged the same: Two assailants stormed in, opening fire while shouting, "Allahu Akbar!" As of Monday morning Canada’s state broadcaster, the CBC, conducted television interviews with witnessed who, again, corroborated the story.

Thirteen hours after the attack, police forces from every level, held a joint press conference in which they confirmed they had two "suspects" in custody. So, several hours after the attack, police held in custody a man who later was identified as 29-year-old engineering student Mohamed Belkhadir. Police confirmed they continued to treat Belkhadir as a suspect and detained him as such well after he was apprehended at the scene.

But only a few hours later, Belkhadir’s role in the attack shifted:

From a suspect who attempted to flee the scene, to a good samaritan and witness who was providing first aid to victims when he was wrongfully accused by police.

However, one consideration of how many CCTV cameras are in place around the mosque invites the question: When did police review the security footage and why did it take them over 12 hours to determine that Bissonnette was their sole suspect? Why was Belkhadir held for such a long time? ...

 

[Eye In The Sky]

There is a lot of backlash to the Syrian Immigrant in Canada. You don't have to go far to see it...

I guess that depends on where you look and what part of Canada you call home...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/halifax-syrian-refugees-lena-diab-mike-savage-any-filmore-1.3539341

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/peace-by-chocolate-hadhads-celebrate-year-one-in-antigonish-1.3925779

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/syrian-newcomers-agriculture-jobs-cumberland-county-1.3955400

 

[Halifax Tar]

Although I may be called offside because I've participated in the debate here, just a friendly reminder:  let's try to keep this thread tracking the crime itself, as opposed to discussing gun control in a ton of detail.  There's already a thread for that, and methinks this could get heated up enough as is    Thanks for your help on this!

Milnet.ca Staff

100% agreed.  I will move over to the thread you speak of

 

[The Bread Guy]

100% agreed.  I will move over to the thread you speak of

Not a huge dig, but there's more than enough on BOTH topics to keep threads healthily fed without force-feeding one or the other - thanks!

 

[The Bread Guy]

... There is a lot of backlash to the Syrian Immigrant in Canada. You don't have to go far to see it on social media ...

FTFY 

 

[Halifax Tar]

Not a huge dig, but there's more than enough on BOTH topics to keep threads healthily fed without force-feeding one or the other - thanks!

No worries at all.

 

[mariomike]

He will not mount a successful insanity defense.

Not necessarily successful, but under the circumstances, what other defence could his lawyer(s) attempt?

Meanwhile, "Fox News apologizes for erroneous Quebec terror tweet".  Let's see if that slows down the "False Flag Machine" on social media -- <sarcasm>yeah, I'm suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure it'll close the door on that angle </sarcasm>.

  :goodpost:

 

[Rifleman62]

Trudeau’s PMO takes on Fox News over a ‘false and misleading’ tweet about the Quebec mosque shooting

Trudeau, 'false and misleading’ ?  Funny headline.

 

[mariomike]

Trudeau, 'false and misleading’ ?  Funny headline.

What did the Prime Minister say or do that was 'false and misleading’ regarding: "29 Jan 2017: Multiple dead after shooting at Quebec City mosque"?

 

[Rifleman62]

Nothing.

IMHO

Trudeau, 'false and misleading’ ?  Funny headline.

based on his election campaign and results of his government to date, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones