All Things AB Separatism (split fm Liberal Minority Government 2025 - ???)

[QV]

There will not be a civil war. Just as the US will not invade and annex Canada or Greenland.

There are major regions inside Canada not happy with the status quo. There is a legal mechanism to break away. This might be explored.

That is all.

 

[Remius]

Pretty sure things would be peaceful in so much that Canada would accept any legal separation. Internal to Alberta might be different if some groups feel they are being dragged into something they don’t want to be a part of. But these would be localized acts of civil or violent disobedience.

 

[Remius]

I think any region/province/territory that secedes from Canada, should not be able to use governmental, monetary, defence or administrative systems of the Nation of Canada.

Well we print money for plenty of country as an example. If Alberta wants our mint to make their currency, as long as they pay the price then why not.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Well we print money for plenty of country as an example. If Alberta wants our mint to make their currency, as long as they pay the price then why not.

That's contracting, paying for a service/good. Not the intent of post.

 

[Remius]

That's contracting, paying for a service/good. Not the intent of post.

Totally agree with the intent of the post though. Happy to take their business as well.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Plus they have to negotiate to move trade goods in, out and across the borders. They would basically be selling their soul to get away from Ottawa to go crawling to Washington. Then Obama 2.0 gets in.......

 

[QV]

Plus they have to negotiate to move trade goods in, out and across the borders. They would basically be selling their soul to get away from Ottawa to go crawling to Washington. Then Obama 2.0 gets in.......

Trade goes both ways. And BC will still want it's goods going back and forth as well. Lots of room for good faith negotiating.

How does Austria, Czechia, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Hungary, Slovakia do it?

 

[Brad Sallows]

All of the objections people keep kicking up that amount to "AB (or QC) would somehow have difficulty doing this thing that other independent nations already do" don't make sense.

The difficult part is deciding whether to pursue negotiated separation or a hard break.

Negotiated separation is so highly impractical that the hard break is the only scenario worth considering. That scenario is analogous to what the US did to separate from Britain. Declare independence and sovereignty on the territory, rewrite government from the ground up, and be prepared to fight if someone outside or inside feels differently. If you win, begin the long process of (re-)normalizing trade and diplomatic relations.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Trade goes both ways. And BC will still want it's goods going back and forth as well. Lots of room for good faith negotiating.

How does Austria, Czechia, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Hungary, Slovakia do it?

Slovakia has struggled due to many issues. Politically it might harm a politicians career to be to friendly to a independent Alberta as there will be a sizable backlash to them

 

[IKnowNothing]

All of the objections people keep kicking up that amount to "AB (or QC) would somehow have difficulty doing this thing that other independent nations already do" don't make sense.

The quoted text is a strawman misrepresentation of "AB (or QC) will HAVE to do or account for this thing that other nations already do, which isn't being considered or accounted for in their presentation of the end state, and as such their models for that end state are painting an overly optimistic picture of what they stand to gain"

 

[Halifax Tar]

Would an independent Alberta have automatic membership into the Commonwealth of Nations, and would that alleviate some of the stressors around the indigenous ?

 

[IKnowNothing]

Slovakia has struggled due to many issues. Politically it might harm a politicians career to be to friendly to a independent Alberta as there will be a sizable backlash to them

Not to mention the (ironic) answer to "what have those countries done" is "trade a certain amount of their sovereignty and regulatory independence in order to be part of a larger regional economic and governance body"

 

[QV]

Slovakia has struggled due to many issues. Politically it might harm a politicians career to be to friendly to a independent Alberta as there will be a sizable backlash to them

I see. How has Luxembourg or Switzerland been doing?

You could also say politically it might be harmful to block your own exports/imports because you're mad at another jurisdiction. There are sizeable numbers in both Sask and BC that support AB independence, it's not going to be that clear.

 

[QV]

Not to mention the (ironic) answer to "what have those countries done" is "trade a certain amount of their sovereignty and regulatory independence in order to be part of a larger regional economic and governance body"

Fair point. And I could get behind a more integrated North American economic union/relationship.

 

[Brad Sallows]

The quoted text is a strawman misrepresentation of "AB (or QC) will HAVE to do or account for this thing that other nations already do, which isn't being considered or accounted for in their presentation of the end state, and as such their models for that end state are painting an overly optimistic picture of what they stand to gain"

I take it for granted that people on both sides are going to exaggerate the ease or difficulty of getting there in order to sell their respective cases. There are a lot of functions the Canadian federal government does that an Alberta government might neither need nor want to do, just as a Quebec government might have more things it wants to do. Pro-separatists can't wish away the costs of governing themselves; anti-separatists can't assert that they have to do absolutely everything the same way the GoC does. Most of the anti-separatists can't wrap their head around the scenario in which a province executes a hard break and throws overboard all the baggage created to protect a handful of colonies and a fur-trading company.

Fundamentally, what has been done by others can be done again.

 

[The Bread Guy]

... I’m curious what the Alberta Defense Force Montana chapter would think about that as well.

Not to mention what kind of notes would be taken by Texans and Californians thinking the ... adjacent thoughts

 

[IKnowNothing]

Jen Gerson is not holding back, and she's bang on.
Jen Gerson: A few thoughts on leadership

 

[IKnowNothing]

Pro-separatists can't wish away the costs of governing themselves;

They can't- but they can dishonestly ignore the costs to gain the votes needed to get their way if said costs aren't discussed openly and often.

 

[QV]

They can't- but they can dishonestly ignore the costs to gain the votes needed to get their way if said costs aren't discussed openly and often.

Why does your side always exclude this goes both ways?

 

[Kirkhill]

Here's one for you. Guilbeault faction wins. Ottawa stops fossil fuels exploitation. FNs see their opportunity to make money dry up.

Alberta secession offers them continued development of their minerals, including fossil fuels.

The US may be the only co-operating outlet but it is a co-operating outlet. Access to tidewater no worse than that of the Dakotas.

Separation is not a great idea but you don't gain anything by failing to appreciate its opportunities as well as its limits and threats.