All Things AB Separatism (split fm Liberal Minority Government 2025 - ???)

[RangerRay]

Alberta is establishing a new Alberta Sheriffs Police Service to become a new provincial police. Looks like as a start it will absorb the existing Sheriffs, some of whom in recent years have become fully police officers.

For now they’re saying this is to augment, not replace the RCMP or any existing service, but they’re scribbling on the wall pretty hard, even if it’s not quite legible yet.

Alberta government names provincial police force, appoints former Calgary officer as first chief | Globalnews.ca

Alberta's government has named its own provincial police force and announced its first chief.

globalnews.ca

Ummm…doesn’t the Province already fund the RCMP while it is the provincial police (with some $$$ from Ottawa)? Would it not be more efficient for the Province to fund the RCMP more or end the RCMP contract rather than duplicating effort by standing up another provincial police agency? Or is this the government virtue signalling to its seppies?

 

[AmmoTech90]

Ummm…doesn’t the Province already fund the RCMP while it is the provincial police (with some $$$ from Ottawa)? Would it not be more efficient for the Province to fund the RCMP more or end the RCMP contract rather than duplicating effort by standing up another provincial police agency? Or is this the government virtue signalling to its seppies?

The F in UCP stands for fiscal prudence.

 

[HavokFour]

Tired of everything, two former UCP MLAs, currently independents have officially revived the Progressive conservative party of Alberta.

Former UCP MLAs trying to resuscitate Alberta’s once-dominant PC Party | Globalnews.ca

The two are aiming to gather the 8,800 signatures needed to register as a political party with Elections Alberta.

globalnews.ca

This very well could cause a shift in AB politics if they get traction from those who are fed up with Smith but dont want to vote NDP.

Just like how Carney saw a big gaping hole that is now being filled by the LPC federally, there may be one provincially to fill in Alberta too.

 

[PrairieFella]

Just like how Carney saw a big gaping hole that is now being filled by the LPC federally, there may be one provincially to fill in Alberta too.

Most Canadians are centrist: news at 6 lol

 

[The Bread Guy]

Ummm…doesn’t the Province already fund the RCMP while it is the provincial police (with some $$$ from Ottawa)? Would it not be more efficient for the Province to fund the RCMP more or end the RCMP contract rather than duplicating effort by standing up another provincial police agency? Or is this the government virtue signalling to its seppies?

I remember a few of my hardest-right small-c conservative friends in AB, during one of the rounds of peak pissed at gun laws, calling for a provincial police service that would sorta-kinda “protect” them from other dastardly police services who would seize guns if the law required. Realize anecdotes =/= data, but that was their thought process as shared with me.

 

[brihard]

Ummm…doesn’t the Province already fund the RCMP while it is the provincial police (with some $$$ from Ottawa)? Would it not be more efficient for the Province to fund the RCMP more or end the RCMP contract rather than duplicating effort by standing up another provincial police agency? Or is this the government virtue signalling to its seppies?

Um, realistically any transition from one police service to another at a provincial level is probably something that takes a decade or more. Some Mounties in Alberta would be happy to hop over. Many others, absolutely not.

Now, the fact that Sheriffs are already up and running and that some are fully fledged police officers means a bunch of the lower level work is already done; they don’t need to weave a new entity out of whole cloth. There’s already a uniform and a badge number to give them, livery on a car with lights and sirens, a radio network with gear and repeaters and frequencies… When the first new recruit does something stupid there’s an oversight mechanism and a code of conduct and a disciplinary process. There’s already pay software and a leave system and terms and conditions of employment, and there’s already a union.

So, this isn’t an entirely clean start like Surrey or Grand Prairie. I’m unqualified to say if they have a running start, but a few warm-up laps have been walked.

IMO, if (waves hands expansively) they are smart, they’ll look to transition a few of the more attractive RCMP detachments first. Take over, say, Airdrie, Fort Saskatchewan, and such. You do that, you’re gonna have lateral hiring applications from junior Mounties currently posted in Fort Fuckmylife, or Mosquito Lake Portage, who know that they’ve probably got another stint to do in Celibate Narrows or Molybdenum Creek before they can maybe get to Fort McMurray at seven years into their career. An ASPS that yoinks some of the desirable Alberta postings and opens the door to serving Mounties will probably pull some bodies over who see the chance to jump the queue in seniority, and go right to a good spot with opportunities to work into a specialty unit and actually have a social life outside of work.

This was inevitable, and good on the province for deciding to finally take the plunge and take responsibility for their own policing, even if for the first year or two they’ll be all demure and pretend that’s not what they’re doing.

Now, all of the above is me watching from distance sidelines. At any point @CBH99 or @Booter , who I think both are or were police in Alberta, may be along to correct me. If they do I’ll sit back humbly and nod my head ‘yes’. (Humbly! I mean it! Don’t laugh.)

 

[RangerRay]

Um, realistically any transition from one police service to another at a provincial level is probably something that takes a decade or more. Some Mounties in Alberta would be happy to hop over. Many others, absolutely not.

Now, the fact that Sheriffs are already up and running and that some are fully fledged police officers means a bunch of the lower level work is already done; they don’t need to weave a new entity out of whole cloth. There’s already a uniform and a badge number to give them, livery on a car with lights and sirens, a radio network with gear and repeaters and frequencies… When the first new recruit does something stupid there’s an oversight mechanism and a code of conduct and a disciplinary process. There’s already pay software and a leave system and terms and conditions of employment, and there’s already a union.

So, this isn’t an entirely clean start like Surrey or Grand Prairie. I’m unqualified to say if they have a running start, but a few warm-up laps have been walked.

IMO, if (waves hands expansively) they are smart, they’ll look to transition a few of the more attractive RCMP detachments first. Take over, say, Airdrie, Fort Saskatchewan, and such. You do that, you’re gonna have lateral hiring applications from junior Mounties currently posted in Fort Fuckmylife, or Mosquito Lake Portage, who know that they’ve probably got another stint to do in Celibate Narrows or Molybdenum Creek before they can maybe get to Fort McMurray at seven years into their career. An ASPS that yoinks some of the desirable Alberta postings and opens the door to serving Mounties will probably pull some bodies over who see the chance to jump the queue in seniority, and go right to a good spot with opportunities to work into a specialty unit and actually have a social life outside of work.

This was inevitable, and good on the province for deciding to finally take the plunge and take responsibility for their own policing, even if for the first year or two they’ll be all demure and pretend that’s not what they’re doing.

Now, all of the above is me watching from distance sidelines. At any point @CBH99 or @Booter , who I think both are or were police in Alberta, may be along to correct me. If they do I’ll sit back humbly and nod my head ‘yes’. (Humbly! I mean it! Don’t laugh.)

Thanks for that. I assumed that is they were going to a provincial service, there would have been announcements etc., prior to standing up a whole agency. I knew there was talk, just like in BC, but I hadn’t heard any announcements on not renewing the contract with the RCMP had been made.

If this is a done deal, it makes sense. If not, I need more convincing.

 

[brihard]

Thanks for that. I assumed that is they were going to a provincial service, there would have been announcements etc., prior to standing up a whole agency. I knew there was talk, just like in BC, but I hadn’t heard any announcements on not renewing the contract with the RCMP had been made.

If this is a done deal, it makes sense. If not, I need more convincing.

I’ve seen nothing about not renewing RCMP contracts, but if what I remember reading from Grande Prairie is correct, I think the current agreement ends 2032? But I don’t know how truly ‘contracty’ that contract is.

A provincial police service has a vast range of duties, nearly as much as the RCMP themselves. Alberta could hire hundreds of police into a very busy provincial police service and never answer a 911 call. Organized crime, cybercrime, internet child exploitation, missing persons, human trafficking, hate crimes, the full spectrum of drug trafficking, capital markets fraud, money laundering…

The business of being the police of jurisdiction providing emergency response and criminal investigation at the municipal level, to three-, four-, or five-figure populations is a big beast, replete with logistical and administrative challenges. Though- most of the infrastructure already exists and is transferable to a new police service.

The linchpin to the whole thing will be bodies who want to work for them. ASPS will have a ton of great opportunities to offer. I will also eventually need, if things go the predictable way, to police Chatehln and High Level and Wabasca-Desmarais. They’ll face all the same challenges the Mounties do with policing rough and unattractive spots, with somewhat fewer career carrots to dangle. But- money talks, and Alberta has money. Generous Isolated post bonuses would offset some of the suck.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Maybe if they separate, I'll buy a ranch.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Alberta is establishing a new Alberta Sheriffs Police Service to become a new provincial police. Looks like as a start it will absorb the existing Sheriffs, some of whom in recent years have become fully police officers.

For now they’re saying this is to augment, not replace the RCMP or any existing service, but they’re scribbling on the wall pretty hard, even if it’s not quite legible yet.

Alberta government names provincial police force, appoints former Calgary officer as first chief | Globalnews.ca

Alberta's government has named its own provincial police force and announced its first chief.

globalnews.ca

Because that went so well for Surrey, right?

 

[MilEME09]

Smith was directly asked today at a press conference if she would sign the petition being organized by the former deputy premiere to keep AB in canada. She refused to answer....not telling at all...

 

[McG]

Ummm…doesn’t the Province already fund the RCMP while it is the provincial police (with some $$$ from Ottawa)? Would it not be more efficient for the Province to fund the RCMP more or end the RCMP contract rather than duplicating effort by standing up another provincial police agency? Or is this the government virtue signalling to its seppies?

Smith is a closet separatist. She wants to take Alberta out of the federation, but is afraid of admitting as much publicly. So she denies while facilitating. An Alberta provincial police force is about making it easier to separate. An Alberta pension plan is about making it easier to separate. That is why she is for these things. Not because either one is fiscally prudent or good for an Alberta within Canada.

 

[MilEME09]

Smith is a closet separatist. She wants to take Alberta out of the federation, but is afraid of admitting as much publicly. So she denies while facilitating. An Alberta provincial police force is about making it easier to separate. An Alberta pension plan is about making it easier to separate. That is why she is for these things. Not because either one is fiscally prudent or good for an Alberta within Canada.

1000% if the new PC party takes off, you can bet the UCP will lose a lot of votes. Will that mean the NDP comes up the middle to win in 27? Maybe, hopefully not but I think the UCP needs an ego check of an election loss. Preferably to a resurgent PC party

 

[Booter]

@brihard which portion of the sheriffs directorate are fully powered police officers? There is an ability to grant them powers in an emergency but I’m curious where you’re getting that info from. I spend a lot of time with them and I’m familiar with their training program and limitations for a variety of reasons- I haven’t come across what you’re saying but id like to look into that.

The present sheriffs have been unable to staff their core functions outside of the hubs- this costs albertans many zeros of dollars as the rcmp fills the gaps in their service delivery. Doing a job the sheriffs exist for. That said the coal face relationship on RAPID deployments is very good and I appreciate them. I wish them success. I just want the province policed no matter the colour of the stripe. Presently it’s a circus in Alberta.

The existing sheriffs programs collective agreement would have made this impossible hence the need for a new organization. They’ll have to negotiate a variety of parts of how they deploy in order to do this. Which is super easy but a major gear shift- as traditionally they have held their salaries back because they don’t work certain hours, don’t take certain functions.

 

[brihard]

@brihard which portion of the sheriffs directorate are fully powered police officers? There is an ability to grant them powers in an emergency but I’m curious where you’re getting that info from. I spend a lot of time with them and I’m familiar with their training program and limitations for a variety of reasons- I haven’t come across what you’re saying but id like to look into that.

I may have read too much into it and this is the part where you correct me, but I’m aware of a few sheriffs coming from the traffic enforcement side who have been accepted as lateral hires into the RCMP this year. I know one personally, an old friend of mine, and there was another on his lateral hire class. It would probably be more accurate for me to say that some of them are far enough along to be hired as experienced police officers. Probably not 100% up to speed, but clearly some have reached a point of a minimal delta. Or maybe RCMP have chosen to accept some risk on lateral hires… But he did the two week conversion course at Depot, and after a few weeks had his own car.

The present sheriffs have been unable to staff their core functions outside of the hubs- this costs albertans many zeros of dollars as the rcmp fills the gaps in their service delivery. Doing a job the sheriffs exist for. That said the coal face relationship on RAPID deployments is very good and I appreciate them. I wish them success. I just want the province policed no matter the colour of the stripe. Presently it’s a circus in Alberta.

The existing sheriffs programs collective agreement would have made this impossible hence the need for a new organization. They’ll have to negotiate a variety of parts of how they deploy in order to do this. Which is super easy but a major gear shift- as traditionally they have held their salaries back because they don’t work certain hours, don’t take certain functions.

Thanks for the insight about their current collective, I didn’t realize it’s so limiting. I was reading yesterday that the new ASPS chief would be in charge of existing sheriffs, but it didn’t indicate what the reporting structure would look like or how the existing head of the Sheriffs fits into that.

If they want a new police service they’ll have to pay like a police service. The union representing existing Sheriffs will probably find itself pressured to either accept absorption and some fundamental changes, or to have an end run done around them and a new bargaining unit certified for the new police service.

Is there any merit to any of what I said regarding partial solutions existing already or am I reading too much into the usefulness of existing sheriffs to this endeavour?

In any case this will still be a slow process.

 

[Booter]

Ah yes the laterals- I’ve heard a few of those. I believe they are being looked at on a case by case basis on a pilot. Interesting.

You ll see in the article that is discussed them not know which amount of the sheriffs will move over to the new org. Because despite the name and discussing them as a pool it’s a new thing. The other sheriffs service having to stay in place for their core functions. Very creative math on their part saying 1200 existing in AB at present. Pure LE sheriffs are more close to 700.

I actually think you’re on point on most of what you’re saying regarding infrastructure as well. Contracts are coming up for discussion- this is the third option a community can elect for and they do have the ability to do a rebrand of a percentage of the stuff that’s here already. The majority of the sheriff equipment/vehicles/ building space will be needed to keep the sheriffs service moving. But depending on contracts there is the ability to rebrand existing stuff as they switch over.

Doing this in 2025 is smart, as it take time to do a switch and now they can build capacity and expand as they get requests for their services. The same objections to the Sask Marshall’s apply here- robbing Peter to pay Paul. Same pool. Same less desirable places. Same promise its not going to take away from X but actually enhance public safety,

I’m optimistic like you

 

[Brad Sallows]

Smith is a closet separatist. She wants to take Alberta out of the federation, but is afraid of admitting as much publicly. So she denies while facilitating. An Alberta provincial police force is about making it easier to separate. An Alberta pension plan is about making it easier to separate. That is why she is for these things. Not because either one is fiscally prudent or good for an Alberta within Canada.

That might be true, but is irrelevant. QC has a provincial police force and its own pension plan. Weakening federal ties without ever achieving full separation can be a worthwhile goal.

 

[Remius]

That might be true, but is irrelevant.

Wanting to separate or being a separatist is irrelevant in a thread about Alberta Seperatism?

LOL.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Wanting to separate or being a separatist is irrelevant in a thread about Alberta Seperatism?

LOL.

No, whether she's a closet separatist or merely using the cloak of separatism to advance the goal of a more independent Alberta on these points amounts to the same thing, and whether or not you want to assume the truth of the former doesn't matter.

 

[HavokFour]

ANOTHER referendum question in the air?

Alberta Next survey asks if province should withhold social services for immigrants

CALGARY - Whether Alberta should withhold social services from immigrants is among the issues Alberta Premier Danielle Smith is tabling for debate this summer when she travels the province to

www.thecanadianpressnews.ca

From the site, intriguing that separation isn't mentioned as something input is being sought about ...
View attachment 94254
... although "constitutional changes" could mean almost anything by the time it gets to a question, right?

Following up.

‘I don’t think that’s right’: Albertans react to idea of withholding services from some immigrants

Whether or not Alberta should withhold social services from some immigrants is among the issues Alberta Premier Danielle Smith is tabling for debate this summer, as she and 15 members of the “Alberta Next Panel” will travel across the province to consult citizens on potential referendum...

edmonton.citynews.ca