All Things AB Separatism (split fm Liberal Minority Government 2025 - ???)

[Halifax Tar]

One wrong justifies a second wrong ... that's generally a recognized logical fallacy in the form of appeal to hypocrisy and "whataboutism".
Though it does seem a popular whitewash tactic to defend one's favoured political bent.

So we agree ?

Both sides doing it cancels out the argument ?

 

[McG]

So we agree ?

Both sides doing it cancels out the argument ?

No. Wrongs do not cancel.
If you can't call-out your preferred political team for doing a wrong, then you are condoning the wrong. It doesn't matter who you accuse of doing something that you assess as similar.
If you defend abhorrent behaviour with an appeal to hypocrisy, you are approving of abhorrent behaviour.

 

[Halifax Tar]

No. Wrongs do not cancel.
If you can't call-out your preferred political team for doing a wrong, then you are condoning the wrong. It doesn't matter who you accuse of doing something that you assess as similar.
If you defend abhorrent behaviour with an appeal to hypocrisy, you are approving of abhorrent behaviour.

I am unsure what fly shit you're picking out of pepper here.

Foreign interference is bad. Alberta shouldn't do it, nor should the feds.

Do you think I believed otherwise ?

 

[Jarnhamar]

RCMP found no evidence of foreign interference in Alberta separatist movement, minister says

https://archive.is/8T63h

 

[McG]

I am unsure what fly shit you're picking out of pepper here.

Foreign interference is bad. Alberta shouldn't do it, nor should the feds.

Do you think I believed otherwise ?

When you flippantly dismiss concerns about (and recent evidence of) foreign interference in Alberta separatism because "we still don't know which MPs are connected to the Chinese" then you certainly comes across as being okay with any foreign interference in Alberta separatism.

 

[QV]

As we lead up to the actual vote, there will be a crazy amount of media spin to influence the outcome. It goes both ways, but only one side controls the CBC etc.

 

[FSTO]

RCMP found no evidence of foreign interference in Alberta separatist movement, minister says

https://archive.is/8T63h

I don't believe a word that comes out of a UCP minister these days.

 

[QV]

I don't believe a word that comes out of a UCP minister these days.

Many say the same thing about the federal side. It's why were at this point now, unfortunately.

 

[QV]

I am unsure what fly shit you're picking out of pepper here.

Foreign interference is bad. Alberta shouldn't do it, nor should the feds.

Do you think I believed otherwise ?

The problem is that the Federal side hasn't addressed it yet (sufficiently for public consumption), and it's now been years. Now were supposed to get all uppity about a new fresh allegation in Alberta interestingly timed ahead of a referendum vote?

 

[Halifax Tar]

When you flippantly dismiss concerns about (and recent evidence of) foreign interference in Alberta separatism because "we still don't know which MPs are connected to the Chinese" then you certainly comes across as being okay with any foreign interference in Alberta separatism.

Again, sure its bad. But no one really cares about it at those levels. So feigning outrage in this case is just a panicked attempt to dismiss grievances you don't agree with.

Oh and:

RCMP found no evidence of foreign interference in Alberta separatist movement, minister says

https://archive.is/8T63h

Make of that what you will.

 

[The Bread Guy]

RCMP found no evidence of foreign interference in Alberta separatist movement, minister says

https://archive.is/8T63h

“Intelligence indicates” or “our research shows” may not always reach the level of “evidence useable in court.” Both RCMP and these other guys could both be correct …

U.S., Russia interfering in Alberta separatist debate, study says | Globalnews.ca

Meddling by foreign adversaries threatens Canadian sovereignty and national security, the study found.

globalnews.ca

 

[Altair]

RCMP found no evidence of foreign interference in Alberta separatist movement, minister says

https://archive.is/8T63h

Just because there is no foreign interference in the the movement doesnt mean foreign actors are not meddling in it.

Russia amplifying Alberta separatism debate to stoke division: study

A new report is raising concerns about foreign interference in Canada, with researchers warning that the Alberta separatism debate has become a growing target of co-ordinated online campaigns tied to countries such as Russia.

www.ctvnews.ca

A new report is raising concerns about foreign interference in Canada, with researchers warning that the Alberta separatism debate has become a growing target of co-ordinated online campaigns tied to countries such as Russia.

The study found a surge in foreign-linked content amplifying Alberta separatism, including messages about independence, Canada’s decline and even the province joining the United States. Much of it is designed to blend into domestic conversations and spread through social media.

So congrats Alberta separatists.

Just another tool of Putin.

 

[Halifax Tar]

“Intelligence indicates” or “our research shows” may not always reach the level of “evidence useable in court.” Both RCMP and these other guys could both be correct …

U.S., Russia interfering in Alberta separatist debate, study says | Globalnews.ca

Meddling by foreign adversaries threatens Canadian sovereignty and national security, the study found.

globalnews.ca

Listen I was just scolded that rules are rules and laws are laws by @Altair .

Don't try and play fast and loose with definitions now because the findings don't go your way.

 

[brihard]

“Intelligence indicates” or “our research shows” may not always reach the level of “evidence useable in court.” Both RCMP and these other guys could both be correct …

U.S., Russia interfering in Alberta separatist debate, study says | Globalnews.ca

Meddling by foreign adversaries threatens Canadian sovereignty and national security, the study found.

globalnews.ca

Are you suggesting there's a difference between the primarily reactive, evidence collection role of the police, and the more forward-leaning intelligence collection efforts led by other agencies? And that different players in the game may not have fully consistent and overlapping information and data holdings, which could lead to differing conclusions at different points in time?

That would be an insightfully nuanced take.

 

[Altair]

“Intelligence indicates” or “our research shows” may not always reach the level of “evidence useable in court.” Both RCMP and these other guys could both be correct …

U.S., Russia interfering in Alberta separatist debate, study says | Globalnews.ca

Meddling by foreign adversaries threatens Canadian sovereignty and national security, the study found.

globalnews.ca

As they amplify separatist voices and normalize American annexation of Canada, these outside forces are posing a direct threat to Canada’s “democratic integrity,” it said.

Moscow has a long history of peddling disinformation that aims to undermine Canada, but U.S. officials and influencers aligned with President Donald Trump have now joined in, it said.

Even if this this run, which i doubt more with each passing day,but even if it's run, i think it's a testament to Canada that we would have been the target of both Russian and American influence campaigns and even then their pet project is on track to be soundly trounced.

 

[Jarnhamar]

“Intelligence indicates” or “our research shows” may not always reach the level of “evidence useable in court.” Both RCMP and these other guys could both be correct …

The article I posted was specifically about whether there was evidence of foreign interference in the Alberta separatist movement itself. The RCMP said they found no credible evidence of that.

The article you posted is about foreign actors amplifying online division and disinformation around the debate which is a broader and much less specific claim.


If the standard is now “foreign actors online discussed or amplified a contentious issue” then that is going to apply to virtually every major political debate in the West.

Edit spelling
Edit struggling with quoting (possibly due to foreign interference)

 

[MilEME09]

So not in the Globe article however, is when the minister was told this by the RCMP, the article vaguely suggests the RCMP may have been more talking about the data breech, and that no evidence suggests foreign interference in that. However until we get a proper statement from the RCMP we wont know how much political spin the UCP are giving this. They are in deep sh*t right now, and they are looking for ways to get out of it. As much as I hate Nenshi, the NDP leader, he made Smith look like a fool that doesn't even know whats going on in her own party the last two QPs.

 

[Halifax Tar]

The article I posted was specifically about whether there was evidence of foreign interference in the Alberta separatist movement itself. The RCMP said they found no credible evidence of that.

The article you posted is about foreign actors amplifying online division and disinformation around the debate which is a broader and much less specific claim.


If the standard is now “foreign actors online discussed or amplified a contentious issue” then that is going to apply to virtually every major political debate in the West.

Edit spelling

Its called moving the goal posts.

 

[Altair]

The article I posted was specifically about whether there was evidence of foreign interference in the Alberta separatist movement itself. The RCMP said they found no credible evidence of that.

The article you posted is about foreign actors amplifying online division and disinformation around the debate which is a broader and much less specific claim.


If the standard is now “foreign actors online discussed or amplified a contentious issue” then that is going to apply to virtually every major political debate in the West.

Edit spelling

I don't think anyone here can be accused of saying that foreign actors are in the movement itself.

In fact, I would assume that foreign intelligence agencies would want nothing to do with them directly, because foreign intelligence agencies prioritize working with competent organizations, especially due to the blowback if they get caught.

 

[McG]

Again, sure its bad.

You say that, but you still go to an effort to minimize so that this time, in this case it is not really bad.

But no one really cares about it at those levels.

This is moral relativism and either an appeal to popular indifference or an appeal to authority (or mabye both). Right and wrong on not measured by how much people care. People can be indifferent about a lot of good things and about a lot of bad things. And who is "no one at those levels"?

So feigning outrage in this case is just a panicked attempt to dismiss grievances you don't agree with.

And now ad hominem. Anyone who is concerned with forgien interference in the case of Alberta separatism is "feigning outrage" and "just a panicked attempt to dismiss grievances". Maybe anyone condoning or minimizing forgien interference in the case of Alberta separatism is just protecting a tool that they see advantageous/necessary to their cause?

The article you posted is about foreign actors amplifying online division and disinformation around the debate which is a broader and much less specific claim.

If the standard is now “foreign actors online discussed or amplified a contentious issue” then that is going to apply to virtually every major political debate in the West.

The concept of foreign interference has always included the deliberate and coordinated efforts by foreign actors online discussing and amplifying messages. That is why Russian, Chinese, Iranian & other troll farms and bots have been a major component in discussions on the foreign interference environment.