All things CF98 (merged)
- Thread starter Greywolf
- Start date
the 48th regulator
Army.ca Fixture
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 430
Blak_Maverick said:
Those types of incidents will more than enough information in your medical files, and I bet you a CF-98 has been filled out. Great advice from below, but I would contact your local IPSC for advice on how to obtain your documents if you are still in. Also, if you are still serving your BOR should be able to get you your medical documents without an ATI, otherwise if you are out, you will have to fill out an ATI request.
dileas
tess
I fell recently at a WO's and Sgt's Mess and fractured my elbow. I am now on a temp category and have started physio to try to get back to normal. The fall was attributable to a top stair that was not level with the floor, causing my heel to hook and I fell. The work necessary to fix the stairs has been in with Public Works to get fixed, before my fall. My question is, because this is a DND facility, am I considered on duty (CF 98) and who should I be contacting to get the required work done on the stairs for safety reasons.
- Reaction score
- 4,899
- Points
- 1,160
The CF98 should make it to the BGSO who can put pressure on CE to have it repaired.
- Reaction score
- 79
- Points
- 680
Also the DND 663 should have made it to the USGO/BSGO
- Reaction score
- 32
- Points
- 330
I don't think any of us can answer the question of it being on duty or not. At this point that would be up to VAC if you were to put a claim in.
Make sure a DND 663 is completed. This is an investigative document and could assist you if you need to make a case for VAC. The thing is that the 663 isn't for you; it's for the service. You don't actually have an entitlement to see it. If you talk to your UGSO they will often let you see the completed document. If they won't then you'll have to go thru formal channels to get a copy.
Good luck.
Make sure a DND 663 is completed. This is an investigative document and could assist you if you need to make a case for VAC. The thing is that the 663 isn't for you; it's for the service. You don't actually have an entitlement to see it. If you talk to your UGSO they will often let you see the completed document. If they won't then you'll have to go thru formal channels to get a copy.
Good luck.
- Reaction score
- 2
- Points
- 230
There are a number of questions that a DND 663 would answer with regards to your situation, in particular whomever the reporting officer is who will state if your injury was directly attributable to military service (which will take into consideration if you were "on duty").
Way too many factors which are not in your intial question that would need to be answered. Just being in a DND building does not in and of itself mean you were on duty. Get witness statements to submit with your CF98, as often they are the resource used when making determinations on the 663.
Way too many factors which are not in your intial question that would need to be answered. Just being in a DND building does not in and of itself mean you were on duty. Get witness statements to submit with your CF98, as often they are the resource used when making determinations on the 663.
- Reaction score
- 3
- Points
- 210
...and keep a copy of every document for your own file!!!!!
The duty question...well. For VAC purposes, here are some questions to ponder (rhetorical):
1) Were you in the performance of military duty at the time of the injury?
2) Is the injury related to military service factors?
IOW: what were you doing at the time of your fall at the Sgts and WOs Mess? Were you there after "normal" work hours and hanging with friends and colleagues? Or were you there during "normal" work hours and on official business (i.e., doing something related to your military duties, such as delivering goods, conducting Mess business as a member of the Mess Committee)?
The duty question...well. For VAC purposes, here are some questions to ponder (rhetorical):
1) Were you in the performance of military duty at the time of the injury?
2) Is the injury related to military service factors?
IOW: what were you doing at the time of your fall at the Sgts and WOs Mess? Were you there after "normal" work hours and hanging with friends and colleagues? Or were you there during "normal" work hours and on official business (i.e., doing something related to your military duties, such as delivering goods, conducting Mess business as a member of the Mess Committee)?
Blackadder1916
Army.ca Fixture
- Reaction score
- 2,865
- Points
- 1,160
Since the "on-duty" question was raised by the OP, it may be assumed that he is wondering if he will have grounds for a claim should there be lasting problems due to his injury. Claims against the Crown do not have to be solely due to injuries received as a result of military service or while on-duty. However, the procedures are not necessarily the same. Things have probably changed since I retired, but I did find:
DAOD 7004-1, Claims and Ex gratia Procedures
The suggestion that you keep copies of all documents for your own file is spot on. However, don't limit it to what is generated by the normal process. Since it may be decades before sequelae resulting from the injury may become evident, conduct and retain the findings of your own "mini-investigation". If you can, get copies of any requests for repair of the place in question (both before and after the incident), take photos and measurements (including a spirit level) of the step, keep a hard copy of any orders, regulations and/or SOPs that may be related to both the circumstances of the incident itself as well the reporting and investigation of your injury. The process (and governing regulations) may change over the years and it may have to be proven years later why certain steps were not done - when in fact they were not required at the time of the incident.
DAOD 7004-1, Claims and Ex gratia Procedures
The suggestion that you keep copies of all documents for your own file is spot on. However, don't limit it to what is generated by the normal process. Since it may be decades before sequelae resulting from the injury may become evident, conduct and retain the findings of your own "mini-investigation". If you can, get copies of any requests for repair of the place in question (both before and after the incident), take photos and measurements (including a spirit level) of the step, keep a hard copy of any orders, regulations and/or SOPs that may be related to both the circumstances of the incident itself as well the reporting and investigation of your injury. The process (and governing regulations) may change over the years and it may have to be proven years later why certain steps were not done - when in fact they were not required at the time of the incident.
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 410
Not intentionally ressurecting an old thread just for the hell of it, however my eyes are beginning to bleed from the millions of CF98 posts what are not completely answering my question. I put this to anyone who may have some relevant info to offer me...
2 years ago I was medevac'd off the range after having a mild heart attack. Without going into much detail, a CF98 was never done (I know - my bad) and things have come to a head. Can I still do a CF98 even though the 14 days have passed? I have witnesses, RSO reports, MIR attending reports, even the padre made a report!
Let this be a lesson to everyone reading this - CF98s are very important. I should have done one and I never. This may impact my future in a significant way if I can't fix it!
2 years ago I was medevac'd off the range after having a mild heart attack. Without going into much detail, a CF98 was never done (I know - my bad) and things have come to a head. Can I still do a CF98 even though the 14 days have passed? I have witnesses, RSO reports, MIR attending reports, even the padre made a report!
Let this be a lesson to everyone reading this - CF98s are very important. I should have done one and I never. This may impact my future in a significant way if I can't fix it!
- Reaction score
- 1,826
- Points
- 1,090
I would still do one, notwithstanding the time limit. I would include a memo outlining the problem. That being said, the CF98 should not be a limiting factor in your case. You have treatment records and witness statements that substantiate your case. Any future VAC issues should be easier to manage with good record keeping on your part.
There was a time where no CF 98 = no coverage. Those days are long gone. Oh, and it's not just the injured party that has a responsibility for the CF 98; the chain of command can initiate one as well.
There was a time where no CF 98 = no coverage. Those days are long gone. Oh, and it's not just the injured party that has a responsibility for the CF 98; the chain of command can initiate one as well.
Hello and good day.
I am in a desperate situation.
I injured my shoulder while on duty a year ago and the pain still comes and goes when I do certain physical activities or motions.
When the incident happened, I noted the time, date and witnesses. So I filled out a CF98 and got the signatures of the 2 witnesses, the signatures of my immediate COC.
I received a copy of the CF98 from our BOR a couple of months back. Only thing missing was my CO's signature.
Recently I received my disclosure booklet and have been informed I will be medically released in May 2016.
For the last year I have been doing my best to go through my COC as well as my BOR to inquire about my CO signing my CF98. However to no avail.
Apparently they don't know "where it went' or "who has hold of it" now
My Caseworker and VAC has been hounding me to get a copy of the CF98 with the CO's signature on it. But I just don't know what to tell them at this point. I pretty much feel powerless in this situation.
To make matters worst, our CO is leaving in 2 weeks and he has a Change Of Command Parade on the weekend of 23-24 April 2016 I believe.
So I have tried going through my COC again this past week but it seems like they are unsure of the situation themselves.
I am now desperate enough to just go up to my current CO when I see him in the hallways and just flat out approach him about my CF98 situation. I don't feel like I have any other avenue of choices.
^ Please guys. I need your advice. Would this be wise for me to do??? Just break out of the COC protocol and approach a very High Ranking member like that?
I only have about this month left to figure my CF98 issue and the CO is leaving the Unit soon.
What other courses of action(s) can you guys recommend me?? If May 2016 passes and I am out of the unit down the road... and my CF98 has not been signed by the CO... Would VAC and my Caseworker do their best to help me when I am figuring out my life on civie street???
Sorry for all the questions but I am very stressed out right now due to this situation.
Thank you and have a great day,
Jay.
I am in a desperate situation.
I injured my shoulder while on duty a year ago and the pain still comes and goes when I do certain physical activities or motions.
When the incident happened, I noted the time, date and witnesses. So I filled out a CF98 and got the signatures of the 2 witnesses, the signatures of my immediate COC.
I received a copy of the CF98 from our BOR a couple of months back. Only thing missing was my CO's signature.
Recently I received my disclosure booklet and have been informed I will be medically released in May 2016.
For the last year I have been doing my best to go through my COC as well as my BOR to inquire about my CO signing my CF98. However to no avail.
Apparently they don't know "where it went' or "who has hold of it" now
My Caseworker and VAC has been hounding me to get a copy of the CF98 with the CO's signature on it. But I just don't know what to tell them at this point. I pretty much feel powerless in this situation.
To make matters worst, our CO is leaving in 2 weeks and he has a Change Of Command Parade on the weekend of 23-24 April 2016 I believe.
So I have tried going through my COC again this past week but it seems like they are unsure of the situation themselves.
I am now desperate enough to just go up to my current CO when I see him in the hallways and just flat out approach him about my CF98 situation. I don't feel like I have any other avenue of choices.
^ Please guys. I need your advice. Would this be wise for me to do??? Just break out of the COC protocol and approach a very High Ranking member like that?
I only have about this month left to figure my CF98 issue and the CO is leaving the Unit soon.
What other courses of action(s) can you guys recommend me?? If May 2016 passes and I am out of the unit down the road... and my CF98 has not been signed by the CO... Would VAC and my Caseworker do their best to help me when I am figuring out my life on civie street???
Sorry for all the questions but I am very stressed out right now due to this situation.
Thank you and have a great day,
Jay.
- Reaction score
- 254
- Points
- 880
Some suggestions in order of preference (Ignore those you have already tried) Document everything and don't take no for an answer:
1. Ask your CoC, Pl WO, Pl Comd or equivalent and have them ask higher for it. (Including CSM and/or OC)
2. Ask to have an appt with the Chief Clerk and ask him/her to sort it out.
3. Ask to have an appt with the Adjutant and ask to have it sorted.
4. Ask to have an appt with the RSM and explain the sit to him/her.
5. Ask to have an appt with the CO and explain the sit to him/her. He/she may not know a thing about it.
6. Submit a notice of intent to submit a redress of grievance and say that the redress you are seeking is the signed CF98.
Waiting a year is unacceptable.
1. Ask your CoC, Pl WO, Pl Comd or equivalent and have them ask higher for it. (Including CSM and/or OC)
2. Ask to have an appt with the Chief Clerk and ask him/her to sort it out.
3. Ask to have an appt with the Adjutant and ask to have it sorted.
4. Ask to have an appt with the RSM and explain the sit to him/her.
5. Ask to have an appt with the CO and explain the sit to him/her. He/she may not know a thing about it.
6. Submit a notice of intent to submit a redress of grievance and say that the redress you are seeking is the signed CF98.
Waiting a year is unacceptable.
ballz
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 444
- Points
- 910
Harris said:
Agreed with the above in principle. I'd probably escalate a little quicker/differently if I were you. If you have already spoken to Pl Comd/2IC, then I'd come to attention at the CSM's door and ask to speak with him. Ask him to get the Coy 2IC involved. If the Coy 2IC doesn't go pretty expediently to see the Adjt, then I'd ask the CSM to bring you to the RSM, and then ask him to get the Adjt involved. Worst-case Ontario, submit a memo with a request to meet the CO, but you shouldn't be getting stonewalled so much that that is necessary.
Remember that if the CO is unavailable (aka its a PRes unit or maybe he's on TD somewhere, etc), the DCO can sign it for him.
If anyone has the parts God gave them, the second your CSM finds out about this issue he would walk you straight into the Coy 2ICs or OC's office himself, and the RSM would walk you straight into the Adjt's office (if not just directly into the CO's office).
You'd be amazed how quick things can move when a Notice of Intent to grieve is submitted. It's pretty sad actually.
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 410
There's a database that your CF98 should be registered in. Your UGSO or BGSO (or unit safety rep) should have access to this. CF98s when properly submitted, should be copied to your med file and your pers file as well.
Your CoC should know this... but if you have a copy already with everything but a CO signature, I would go with that. You never mentioned that you needed this substantiation for a disability claim? If not, then why is a CF98 necessary? Is the shoulder injury the reason for your release? I am going through almost the same thing, with the exception of at least you had the foresight to raise the CF98!
Your CoC should know this... but if you have a copy already with everything but a CO signature, I would go with that. You never mentioned that you needed this substantiation for a disability claim? If not, then why is a CF98 necessary? Is the shoulder injury the reason for your release? I am going through almost the same thing, with the exception of at least you had the foresight to raise the CF98!
ballz
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 444
- Points
- 910
ModlrMike said:
And I don't disagree with that approach either. As I said, you'd be surprised how quick stuff will happen when the NOI is in.I will add that we shouldn't call it "nuclear," people are already scared to rock the boat and I don't want the OP to feel timid about it. The fact is a Notice of Intent to Grieve is not really "nuclear" but it sure will get the ball rolling.
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 410
Brasidas said:
Absolutely - me too. But as I am in "arbitration" with VAC right now for a CF98 completely missing (my own fault) I am made aware that even a partly completed CF98 would suffice at this time. The necessary points they are looking for are circumstances with a date / time / place, witness(es) and whether or not a doctor was seen. At least this is what they are telling me. It's unfortunate because unlike the OP, I never even raised one!
Some is better than none! But yes - IMO an Adj could get that signature very easily.
