All Things First Nations - CF help, protests, solutions, residential schools, etc. (merged)

[ModlrMike]

Meth.

 

[medicineman]

Meth.

Yup...

MM

 

[Jarnhamar]

Meth.

Maybe the protests will slow down the amount of meth coming in to Winnipeg.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Interesting, and ironic in the case of Eby

Les Leyne: Remarkable organizing prowess fuels protests

The motives and validity of the protest shutdowns are up for debate, but the organizational prowess is beyond dispute. It’s a remarkable achievement to co-ordinate thousands of people in massive civil disobedience across Canada.

And it confirms what’s already obvious — the B.C. and federal governments are dealing with something significant and ongoing.

Two years ago, there was a brief glimpse of the strategic thinking that’s going into the demonstrations. It was a small political story that passed quickly, but this week suggests the concepts that came to light then are still in play.

It was about “the hive.”

The reference was in a planning document that leaked after Environment Minister George Heyman attended a meeting at a Bowen Island retreat with some people who were dedicated to blocking the Kinder Morgan oil pipeline proposal.

The opposition Liberals landed on the outline and accused Heyman of consorting with activists and agitators.

He said he was just doing his job, meeting everyone. The rest of the cabinet just rolled their eyes and laughed off the opposition’s dark suspicions.

But nobody’s laughing today. Because the hive looks to be alive and well, and buzzing around the NDP government’s head.

It was described at the time as a lift-off for “ongoing coordination of organizational support for mass action.” The outline described a coalition of grassroots groups that would support and share information about mass, creative and non-violent direct actions.

“The Hive brings resources, money, action experience and technical know-how, capacity and co-ordination experience.”

It described regular meetings where decisions are made by consensus, but groups are free to act independently as their work requires.

Flowing from that was “the Swarm.” It brings energy, creative, hard-hitting plans and momentum,” said the outline.

It gave various examples of how an opportunity for mass action might be identified and how sponsors of specific protest actions could tap into the hive and get support to make it a success.

“This group is about inspiring and supporting action on a mass scale … This group is an organizing structure, not a brand. We will not have a brand or presence in public beyond what is necessary to achieve our goals.”

It committed to non-violent direct action and avoid harm to individuals and “unnecessary damage to property.”

It also recommended digital security protocols to maintain a low profile — discuss tactics in person wherever possible, prevent documents from being publicly viewable, use encrypted message apps and ensure phone calls are private.

It’s not known if the specific hive referred to is still functional.

The Kinder Morgan pipeline project collapsed before mass protests were called.

But the outline is a perfect model for how to accomplish exactly what unfolded this week — coordinated, mass action on a grand scale.

It doesn’t just happen spontaneously. It needs a lot of careful thinking, and big pool of volunteers.

Just So You Know: Another document from even further back came to light this week. It is much more obviously in play today and it’s more than a little ironic.

A message circulating widely refers to how “legal observers” were trained by the protesters to monitor the response of police and authorities to the disruptions.

The co-author of the handbook being used?

It was David Eby, now B.C.’s attorney general, who wrote it for protesters active during the 2010 Vancouver-Whistler Olympics while he was with the B.C. Civil Liberties Association.

The same Eby whose Vancouver-Point Grey constituency office was occupied this week by protesters who traumatized office staff.

Legal observers following the Eby handbook were on hand at the legislature blockades.

He described their role in the guide as “calm, independent objective witnesses to the activities of security forces.”

They are considered separate from protesters and their main job is to collect evidence that protesters later pursuing complaints against police might use.

He recommended against providing legal advice, interfering, or speaking to the media.

The tactics are bewildering. How antagonizing tens of thousands of taxpayers by shutting down Metro Vancouver transportation links constitutes a win is hard to figure.

But demonstrators are following a comprehensive and thorough game plan as they raise the stakes.
https://www.timescolonist.com/opinion/columnists/les-leyne-remarkable-organizing-prowess-fuels-protests-1.24077299

 

[Good2Golf]

...and yet those in The Hive and close to them are no doubt also clamoring over the high gasoline prices and increasing energy costs. :

*sniff, sniff*

...not...

 

[FSTO]

I wonder how much involvement the Internet Research Agency has in all of this? 

Because they must be rubbing their hands in glee at how easy it is to grind Canada's economy to a halt. Especially with the vast amounts of useful idiots plodding about our country.

 

[mariomike]

how easy it is to grind Canada's economy to a halt.

Protestors have already targeted MacMillan Yard. If they also target Symington Yard, that will take out the two largest rail classification yards in Canada.

 

[Kat Stevens]

If I were in charge I'd roll a locomotive up to 200 yds of the protest line, and start making a very big show of bolting up cow catchers.

 

[Cloud Cover]

Rock and a hard place. Any state action to forcibly remove them transforms dissidents engaging in anarchy for any cause into victims. And that we don’t need....

 

[The Bread Guy]

... they must be rubbing their hands in glee at how easy it is to grind Canada's economy to a halt ...

A former CAF officer wrote about exactly how vulnerable Canada's economy is to such actions -- as well as how to head such things off at the pass -- in 2013 (links to PDF).  All I'll say is that it's interesting reading, with a quite few controversial ideas.

Rock and a hard place. Any state action to forcibly remove them transforms dissidents engaging in anarchy for any cause into victims. And that we don’t need....

:nod:

 

[mariomike]

A former CAF officer wrote about exactly how vulnerable Canada's economy is to such actions -- as well as how to head such things off at the pass -- in 2013 (links to PDF).  All I'll say is that it's interesting reading, with a quite few controversial ideas. :nod:

Although these revenues are significant, the true value of Canada’s railway freight systems lies in its role as the indispensable economic enabler, linking national producers to domestic and foreign buyers.

 

[YZT580]

Perhaps if our government had encouraged nationalism i.e. pride in our country of Canada instead of catering to multi-nationalism and pandering to complainers we would be hearing people speaking out loudly against this type of action.  This is not a rant against multi-nationalism by the way but an encouragement for nationalism.  People need to learn to take pride in Canada and not look back at the past.  The same concept applies to first nations.  They need to believe that they are Canadians with a rich heritage and not (insert tribe) and go from there.  Sadly, the police are doing the right thing.  But only because Canadians won't stand with them and say enough.  We are allowing ourselves to be bullied by what is, when all is said and done, a small minority of people with an axe to grind.

 

[Remius]

Perhaps if our government had encouraged nationalism i.e. pride in our country of Canada instead of catering to multi-nationalism and pandering to complainers we would be hearing people speaking out loudly against this type of action.  This is not a rant against multi-nationalism by the way but an encouragement for nationalism.  People need to learn to take pride in Canada and not look back at the past.  The same concept applies to first nations.  They need to believe that they are Canadians with a rich heritage and not (insert tribe) and go from there.  Sadly, the police are doing the right thing.  But only because Canadians won't stand with them and say enough.  We are allowing ourselves to be bullied by what is, when all is said and done, a small minority of people with an axe to grind.

Depends on what you define as nationalism. As well as how you define "multinationalism".

I would argue that the First Nations are practising the form of nationalism (albeit their own nationalism) I think you are trying to explain.  Did they ever define themselves or believe themselves as Canadian first?  Or was that definition imposed on them?  Many Quebecers and Newfoundlanders have the same mentality.  I think they absolutely believe they have a rich heritage, but many I suspect they don't see it in a Canadian context as much as they see it as a First Nations context. 

If we adopt a nationalist approach, would that not run counter to broker deals and relationships with other nations and get oil to tidewater?

I do however agree with your last statement about being bullied.   

 

[brihard]

Perhaps if our government had encouraged nationalism i.e. pride in our country of Canada instead of catering to multi-nationalism and pandering to complainers we would be hearing people speaking out loudly against this type of action.  This is not a rant against multi-nationalism by the way but an encouragement for nationalism.  People need to learn to take pride in Canada and not look back at the past.  The same concept applies to first nations.  They need to believe that they are Canadians with a rich heritage and not (insert tribe) and go from there.  Sadly, the police are doing the right thing.  But only because Canadians won't stand with them and say enough.  We are allowing ourselves to be bullied by what is, when all is said and done, a small minority of people with an axe to grind.

'Patriotism' probably fits what you're saying better than 'nationalism'. The latter has an exclusionary self-interest element that is the exact opposite of what we want to achieve with FNs.

The relationship between Canada and many of the first nations is, in a literal legal sense, a nation-to-nation relationship. In a lot of cases there isn't much of a Canadian identity there to nurture, and little for them to feel patriotic about. God knows we've given them little reason to over the last century. A couple decades of economic development (when it suits our own interests, of course) does not wave away many more decades of exploitation and abuse. We have a ton to work on.

The thing is, if 99% of Canadians were loudly standing up and voicing their opposition to thee protests, that would be a *political* matter, but it still wouldn't much change the calculus of the crisis. If it led to a forceful resolution, it would immediately - and pretty accurately - get chalked up as just more oppression.

Flip side to that, clearly the blockage of critical economic infrastructure is not something that can stand. Something's gotta give here. Negotiation may not achieve that. It looks pretty likely at this point that Coastal Gas Link's pipeline is gonna go into the ground, of course in accordance with the agreement with the majority of FNs impacted, including most of the Wet'sut'wen. The Mohawks are saying they won't end the blockade til RCMP are off Wet'sut'wen land; it doesn't seem likely that that can happen any time soon without this going back to square one.

So yeah, I don't know where that leaves us, and I don't envy those who make the decisions. I hope this can all get settled without anyone getting hurt.

 

[YZT580]

Thank you.  Patriotism is the right word but the time for people to stand up and say I am Canadian was a long time ago.  The attitude needs to have been in place BEFORE.  The multi-national concept that Pierre encouraged is counter-productive.  It encourages a me-first attitude and with the high rate of immigration we need to start encouraging the change in attitude now.  Immigration is needed but those who come must come with the notion that they have left their old country behind and are now part of a new nation called Canada and that requires different loyalties.  That is one reason why some countries do not allow dual citizenship.  First nations are a prime example of dual citizenship at its worst.  They have been walled off from Canada by treaty and by history and never allowed to join in as equal citizens.  They are always Canadian AND.  But how to change it, I have no idea.  But change it we must or someone is going to get hurt and all of us are going to be less well off as a result and I am not thinking of finances but well off as a people.

 

[Remius]

Thank you.  Patriotism is the right word but the time for people to stand up and say I am Canadian was a long time ago.  The attitude needs to have been in place BEFORE.  The multi-national concept that Pierre encouraged is counter-productive.  It encourages a me-first attitude and with the high rate of immigration we need to start encouraging the change in attitude now.  Immigration is needed but those who come must come with the notion that they have left their old country behind and are now part of a new nation called Canada and that requires different loyalties.  That is one reason why some countries do not allow dual citizenship.  First nations are a prime example of dual citizenship at its worst.  They have been walled off from Canada by treaty and by history and never allowed to join in as equal citizens.  They are always Canadian AND.  But how to change it, I have no idea.  But change it we must or someone is going to get hurt and all of us are going to be less well off as a result and I am not thinking of finances but well off as a people.

One can still be patriotic and hold true to their heritage.  Canada has the same issues any "New world" country has.  Go to Australia, New Zealand, the US and you see the same phenomenon.  All of those countries have had waves of immigrants come in and help shape the country for what it is.  I think the issue is that the hyphen before or after "Canadian" is more a reference to culture than to citizenship.  Family and culture are intertwined.  A lot of people will be far more loyal to their family than to their country. 

It isn't something they just can easily drop and forget.

Canada tried to "canadianize" first nations before.  It didn't go so well and a lot of today's issues are a result of those attempts. 

 

[Jarnhamar]

The thing is first nations can't even agree on what land belongs to who. They're constantly fighting among themselves about borders and rights.  I'm pretty sure the Wet'suwet'en land claims are being claimed by another first nation who says it's actually their land.

600 nations arguing about borders when a hell of a lot of money in the form of natural resources are at stake isn't going to end well. Surely the Canadian settler government won't be the deciding factor on what belongs to who.

 

[daftandbarmy]

The thing is first nations can't even agree on what land belongs to who. They're constantly fighting among themselves about borders and rights.  I'm pretty sure the Wet'suwet'en land claims are being claimed by another first nation who says it's actually their land.

600 nations arguing about borders when a hell of a lot of money in the form of natural resources are at stake isn't going to end well. Surely the Canadian settler government won't be the deciding factor on what belongs to who.

So, kind of like Europe then, right?

 

[dapaterson]

And now a border crossing.  Protesters are blocking access to the Thousand Islands bridge near Kingston, Ontario.

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/protesters-block-access-road-to-thousand-islands-bridge-opp-1.4815369

 

[mariomike]

And now a border crossing.  Protesters are blocking access to the Thousand Islands bridge near Kingston, Ontario.

Also the International Bridge at Niagara Falls.

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/anti-pipeline-protesters-block-international-bridge-in-niagara-falls-in-support-of-wet-suwet-en-1.4814447