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All Things First Nations - CF help, protests, solutions, residential schools, etc. (merged)

Loachman said:
... I have nothing against statues honouring commanders, units, or soldiers of losing sides as long as they fought honourably and ethically.

A statue of a slave-owner whipping one of his victims, however, would be completely different, as would a statue of a war criminal ...
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Good distinction.

The trouble comes when people start measuring the honour and ethics of individuals and the causes they backed, which brings up the "can we judge by today's standards or do we look for an absolute?"
 
The Bread Guy said:
Good distinction.

The trouble comes when people start measuring the honour and ethics of individuals and the causes they backed, which brings up the "can we judge by today's standards or do we look for an absolute?"
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I think that the Jim Crow era can easily be judged by our standards. By the early 1800s slavery was not seen in a good light by most of the world. By 1865 it was stopped by force in the US. 50 years after that, pro slavery segregationists were still at it by erecting specific statues as symbols of OPPRESSION, not as a way of honouring war heroes.

It is telling that a few key Confederate Generals do not have statues erected in public spaces by the Jim Crow era folks. Longstreet is a prime example. The man was a rabid anti slavery activist after the war. He’s arguably one of the better generals the confederates had. But he barely has any monuments anywhere to his names. Certainly not in the 31 states that raised those statues. (Only 11 states formed the confederacy yet 31 states have had statues erected mostly during Jim Crow times).

So while some people will use the excuse that “we can’t judge by today’s standards”. To an extent. But even using the standards of the day we can certainly judge. Should we judge a civil war general that made a difficult choice back in the day? Maybe not. But we can can certainly judge people who 50 years later used that general as a symbol of oppression. That’s what we are talking about. And we can certainly judge people today on how they can reconcile with the warts of the past.

I shudder to think that a hundred years from now some forum will be arguing that we can’t judge the nazi regime by the standards of that time.
 
Remius said:
I think that the Jim Crow era can easily be judged by our standards. By the early 1800s slavery was not seen in a good light by most of the world. By 1865 it was stopped by force in the US. 50 years after that, pro slavery segregationists were still at it by erecting specific statues as symbols of OPPRESSION, not as a way of honouring war heroes.

It is telling that a few key Confederate Generals do not have statues erected in public spaces by the Jim Crow era folks. Longstreet is a prime example. The man was a rabid anti slavery activist after the war. He’s arguably one of the better generals the confederates had. But he barely has any monuments anywhere to his names. Certainly not in the 31 states that raised those statues. (Only 11 states formed the confederacy yet 31 states have had statues erected mostly during Jim Crow times).

So while some people will use the excuse that “we can’t judge by today’s standards”. To an extent. But even using the standards of the day we can certainly judge. Should we judge a civil war general that made a difficult choice back in the day? Maybe not. But we can can certainly judge people who 50 years later used that general as a symbol of oppression. That’s what we are talking about. And we can certainly judge people today on how they can reconcile with the warts of the past.

I shudder to think that a hundred years from now some forum will be arguing that we can’t judge the nazi regime by the standards of that time.
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But first of all you must establish the norm before you start to judge whether people were cruel, abusive or whatever and this is lacking in most of these cases.
 
Remius said:
.... It is telling that a few key Confederate Generals do not have statues erected in public spaces by the Jim Crow era folks. Longstreet is a prime example. The man was a rabid anti slavery activist after the war. He’s arguably one of the better generals the confederates had. But he barely has any monuments anywhere to his names. Certainly not in the 31 states that raised those statues. (Only 11 states formed the confederacy yet 31 states have had statues erected mostly during Jim Crow times) ...
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Good point -- just like in certain regimes around the world, some "famous folks" make it into the Statue Hall of Fame, and some not so much.
 
The horror continues. As this goes on, and it will as other graves are uncovered, this will take the form of a 'decade of darkness' for Canada in many ways:

​

Sask. First Nation announces hundreds of unmarked graves found at former residential school site​


The Cowessess First Nation says it has discovered hundreds of unmarked graves at the site of the former Marieval Indian Residential School in Saskatchewan.

A news release Wednesday from Cowessess and the Federation of Sovereign Indigenous First Nations (FSIN), which represents Saskatchewan's First Nations, did not give a specific number but said it will be the most found to date in Canada.

Cowessess Chief Cadmus Delorme and FSIN Chief Bobby Cameron are scheduled to hold a news conference Thursday morning to provide more details of the findings.

The Marieval Indian Residential School operated from 1899 to 1997 in the area where Cowessess is now located, about 140 kilometres east of Regina.

The First Nation took over the school's cemetery from the Catholic Church in the 1970s.

Earlier this month Cowessess started using ground-penetrating radar to locate unmarked graves.


 
It was a marked cemetery not a dump site. For whatever reason the church removed the tombstones in the 60's but if you look at the photos the flag markers are more or less in neat rows.
 
Quirky said:
Hmmm how convenient they ‘just’ discovered this. Prepare for more reparations in the form of burned churches.
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With the price of lumber, selling the wood seems like it would be more economical.
 
Look out for those spent casings, they're hot....


Bennett issues public apology after Jody Wilson-Raybould accuses her of sending 'racist' private message​

​

Bennett suggested Wilson-Raybould's recent Indigenous activism was ploy to secure MP pension​


Former minister of justice and attorney general of Canada Jody Wilson-Raybould and then minister of Indigenous and Northern Affairs Carolyn Bennett. (Adrian Wyld/Canadian Press)

The federal cabinet minister responsible for Crown-Indigenous relations apologized publicly to an Indigenous MP today after suggesting Jody Wilson-Raybould's concern over residential schools and Indigenous rights was really a ploy to secure a generous MP pension.

"Earlier I offered my apologies directly to the MP for Vancouver-Granville. I let interpersonal dynamics get the better of me and sent an insensitive and inappropriate comment, which I deeply regret and shouldn't have done," Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations Carolyn Bennett said in a social media post.

Former justice minister and attorney general Jody Wilson-Raybould, the Independent MP for Vancouver Granville, famously resigned from the Liberal cabinet and was later removed from the party by Prime Minister Justin Trudeau over the SNC-Lavalin affair.

 
As I understand it, both Churches were on reserve land.

Who, then would form their congregations?

City-dwelling white people?

Who would get married in them?

Who would be baptized in them?

Whose funerals would be conducted in them?

What communities' functions would be held in them?

Who would benefit from charities supported and conducted by them?

Who would their soup kitchens feed?

Who most suffers from there loss?

Who is least likely to have torched them?

Who is most likely to have torched them?
 
Remius said:
I shudder to think that a hundred years from now some forum will be arguing that we can’t judge the nazi regime by the standards of that time.
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"The standards of that time" did not include mass genocide or forced horrific "medical" experiments.

Some things are just wrong.

Abusing and dehumanizing people is one of those things.
 
Loachman said:
Who is most likely to have torched them?
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First Nations angry at the church for residential schools.
Far-left white knights who are angry at the church
Far-right who want to implicate the First Nations.
Far-left who want to implicate the far right
Liberal Party of Canada who wanted a little extra support pushing bill C-36 through.

I'll take door #5
 
10% never get the word....


Priest under fire after sermon on the 'good done' by Catholic Church on residential schools​

Clips of last Sunday's controversial sermon widely criticized on social media​



A Mississauga, Ont., priest is under fire after a sermon referencing the "good done" by the Roman Catholic Church in residential schools, saying some might go so far as to even thank it.

During his sermon at the Merciful Redeemer Parish last Sunday, Monsignor Owen Keenan referenced the Kamloops, B.C., residential school where the Tk'emlúps te Secwépemc First Nation reported it had discovered the preliminary remains of more than 200 children in unmarked graves in May.

 
daftandbarmy said:
10% never get the word....


Priest under fire after sermon on the 'good done' by Catholic Church on residential schools​

Clips of last Sunday's controversial sermon widely criticized on social media​



A Mississauga, Ont., priest is under fire after a sermon referencing the "good done" by the Roman Catholic Church in residential schools, saying some might go so far as to even thank it.

During his sermon at the Merciful Redeemer Parish last Sunday, Monsignor Owen Keenan referenced the Kamloops, B.C., residential school where the Tk'emlúps te Secwépemc First Nation reported it had discovered the preliminary remains of more than 200 children in unmarked graves in May.

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Its a bit tone deaf isn't it? Or at least I see it that way.

On the other hand the grovelers and apologists grate my nerves too.
 
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