All Things First Nations - CF help, protests, solutions, residential schools, etc. (merged)

[Maxman1]

At the Huronia Regional Centre in Orillia there was lots and lots of stuff going on back in the day, including a whole building for pregnancies. What ever happened to those babies I wonder?

The ground penetrating radar discovered something. Unless someone went around and dug a bunch of trenches and filled them in for the fun of it just so we had something to comment on, something happened or was going on. Or the ground penetrating radar is completely unreliable but that is not what I have been told in the past in conversations with geologists and archaeologists doing surveys

Ground penetrating radar only tells you there's an anomaly. It doesn't tell you what, if anything, is there.

The Camsell Hospital was rumoured to have graves on the site, and several spots were identified. When it was dug up, nothing was found.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/camsell-hospital-excavation-ends-1.6222381

 

[suffolkowner]

Ground penetrating radar only tells you there's an anomaly. It doesn't tell you what, if anything, is there.

The Camsell Hospital was rumoured to have graves on the site, and several spots were identified. When it was dug up, nothing was found.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/camsell-hospital-excavation-ends-1.6222381

At the Huronia Regional Centre in Orillia there was lots and lots of stuff going on back in the day, including a whole building for pregnancies. What ever happened to those babies I wonder?

The ground penetrating radar discovered something. Unless someone went around and dug a bunch of trenches and filled them in for the fun of it just so we had something to comment on, something happened or was going on. Or the ground penetrating radar is completely unreliable but that is not what I have been told in the past in conversations with geologists and archaeologists doing surveys

yeah thats what i said

 

[lenaitch]

I wonder how much of this is more government callousness and poor record-keeping vs. something more nefarious. I have no doubt that many within 'the system' back then had a rather racist view of FN peoples (and many other races), but in many instances we are applying contemporary social attitudes to events of many years ago.

Regarding the Huronia Regional Centre (in today's terms, a mental health facility), many of the residents, particularly in the early days, were simply turned over to the province by the families - they became wards of the state. So-called 'warehousing' of mentally ill people was a not-uncommon social response back in the day. The 'anomalies' were detected in the facility's cemetery; I'm not aware anomalies were found elsewhere on the former grounds.

HRC was only one of many around the province, most of which are closed now and many of the former residents are now in the community; in my view without adequate supports. At the time, the Ontario government promised community-based group homes and support for families, most which didn't materialize.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

My guess a bit of both, there were a number of people in charge in the early 20th century that could not GAF about the FN and their kids and saw them as useless. There were good people that tried to change things but were hampered by the former and by classical Canadian incompetence.

 

[OldSolduer]

My guess a bit of both, there were a number of people in charge in the early 20th century that could not GAF about the FN and their kids and saw them as useless. There were good people that tried to change things but were hampered by the former and by classical Canadian incompetence.

And indifference to the plight of others. "Why should we care about them?" attitude.

 

[CountDC]

Even the press will sometimes refer to mass unmarked graves which always annoys me. A mass grave is not a site where slightly over 100 people have been buried over a century.

Don't recall where (thinking the prairie's) a group was trying to make hay of this matter while the former chief spoke up stating they always new about the graves and that they use to have wooden crosses. It is an estimate that approx 150k children attended the school and as many as 6K died. Even the TRC lists approx 2K as not returned home, 1242 died and an other 477 needed more research.

It's also false that all the kids were grabbed and forced to the school by the government, residential schools were not mandatory until 1920. Sometimes it was the parents that forced the kids to go to school hoping for a better life for them. Some schools were at the reservation and the students went home at the end of the day just like public schools now.

There was abusive staff and some schools were worse than others. There was ignoring of the inspector that reported several times that the school system needed work and proper over sight. I also absolutely belief that there were some murders due to excessive abuse.

I find it horrible that the man that is mainly blamed for the Residential Schools had nothing to do with them, he was dead when they started. He was an honourary member of the tribe he was trying to help, best friends with the chief and together they had tried to start a school system on the reservation that included teaching the tribe members modern farming skills.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Don't recall where (thinking the prairie's) a group was trying to make hay of this matter while the former chief spoke up stating they always new about the graves and that they use to have wooden crosses.

Might be the one in Southern Sask. Apparently years ago the local priest had a disagreement with the local band and had the graveyard bulldozed, destroying all the crosses.

 

[GR66]

Might be the one in Southern Sask. Apparently years ago the local priest had a disagreement with the local band and had the graveyard bulldozed, destroying all the crosses.

Well doesn't that sound very Christian

 

[FSTO]

Don't recall where (thinking the prairie's) a group was trying to make hay of this matter while the former chief spoke up stating they always new about the graves and that they use to have wooden crosses.

Qu’Appelle Valley, NE of Regina

 

[Maxman1]

Specifically it's the Cowessess First Nation. A lot of downright shameful articles were written declaring "751 graves found on site of former residential school", when it was a cemetary that predates the school by almost a century, was used by the entire community and the grave markers were removed or rotted away. The residential school was unrelated to to the cemetary, and was also shut down as a residential school and turned over to the band in the 70s, and used as a day school until a new building replaced it.

 

[lenaitch]

Even the press will sometimes refer to mass unmarked graves which always annoys me. A mass grave is not a site where slightly over 100 people have been buried over a century.

Don't recall where (thinking the prairie's) a group was trying to make hay of this matter while the former chief spoke up stating they always new about the graves and that they use to have wooden crosses. It is an estimate that approx 150k children attended the school and as many as 6K died. Even the TRC lists approx 2K as not returned home, 1242 died and an other 477 needed more research.

It's also false that all the kids were grabbed and forced to the school by the government, residential schools were not mandatory until 1920. Sometimes it was the parents that forced the kids to go to school hoping for a better life for them. Some schools were at the reservation and the students went home at the end of the day just like public schools now.

There was abusive staff and some schools were worse than others. There was ignoring of the inspector that reported several times that the school system needed work and proper over sight. I also absolutely belief that there were some murders due to excessive abuse.

I find it horrible that the man that is mainly blamed for the Residential Schools had nothing to do with them, he was dead when they started. He was an honourary member of the tribe he was trying to help, best friends with the chief and together they had tried to start a school system on the reservation that included teaching the tribe members modern farming skills.

And don't discount pressure from the clergy who had a strong presence on the reserves and, by the way, ran the schools funded by the government. There was both a ideological and financial incentive to support the schools.

 

[Brad Sallows]

"Denialist" has become a go-to pejorative because of the strength of the opprobrium associated with "Holocaust denier". It's part of the rhetorical toolset used by people who want to bring an abrupt end to debate or even mere discussion.

There is a stark difference between "known graves" and "suspected graves". I deem it likely that excavation will eventually reveal graves on many sites - maybe not in the numbers or locations suspected. I don't think it necessary to find graves in order to discuss residential schools - the good and the bad, what is to be done now about the bad, and whether a similar school structure without the bad parts might be a good idea right now in view of the current state of education in some communities (particularly remote/dispersed ones).

 

[daftandbarmy]

"Denialist" has become a go-to pejorative because of the strength of the opprobrium associated with "Holocaust denier". It's part of the rhetorical toolset used by people who want to bring an abrupt end to debate or even mere discussion.

There is a stark difference between "known graves" and "suspected graves". I deem it likely that excavation will eventually reveal graves on many sites - maybe not in the numbers or locations suspected. I don't think it necessary to find graves in order to discuss residential schools - the good and the bad, what is to be done now about the bad, and whether a similar school structure without the bad parts might be a good idea right now in view of the current state of education in some communities (particularly remote/dispersed ones).

Luckily UBC has published some information on how to spot those 'denialists'.

Truth before reconciliation: 8 ways to identify and confront Residential School denialism - Beyond

Denialism obscures the truth about Canada’s Indian Residential School system in ways that protect the status quo

beyond.ubc.ca

I wonder if their residential Pretendian helped put this list together

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/mary-ellen-turpel-lafond-ubc-1.6717467

 

[bick]

Here’s an interesting article that clarifies the Kamloops “search”

The Kamloops ‘Discovery’: A Fact-Check Two Years Later

TWO YEARS AFTER the claim rocked the world that “the remains of 215 children” had been found on the grounds of the former Kamloops Indian Residential School, we know much more than we did at the time.

www.dorchesterreview.ca

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Luckily UBC has published some information on how to spot those 'denialists'.

Truth before reconciliation: 8 ways to identify and confront Residential School denialism - Beyond

Denialism obscures the truth about Canada’s Indian Residential School system in ways that protect the status quo

beyond.ubc.ca

I wonder if their residential Pretendian helped put this list together

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/mary-ellen-turpel-lafond-ubc-1.6717467

Problem is that if you start pushing for factual details, you get shot down. Very few people deny the residential school systems or that it was a bad idea. Or that government policy on FN's was self-defeating. But there is a strong desire currently to paint FN's as these holier than thou people that lived a life that was close to utopia at the time this was first implemented. I would love to see an educational component that covers both the good and bad of the various Indigenous cultures from pre-contact, contact and, implementation of the residential school system and attempts to change and reform it and government maleficence to stymie those changes, Sadly there are many people both indigenous and non-indigenous that do not want a real factual discussion as it does not serve their agendas.

 

[YZT580]

Problem is that if you start pushing for factual details, you get shot down. Very few people deny the residential school systems or that it was a bad idea. Or that government policy on FN's was self-defeating. But there is a strong desire currently to paint FN's as these holier than thou people that lived a life that was close to utopia at the time this was first implemented. I would love to see an educational component that covers both the good and bad of the various Indigenous cultures from pre-contact, contact and, implementation of the residential school system and attempts to change and reform it and government maleficence to stymie those changes, Sadly there are many people both indigenous and non-indigenous that do not want a real factual discussion as it does not serve their agendas.

can't let facts get in the way of one's agenda especially when the agenda will pry money loose.

 

[JLB50]

Problem is that if you start pushing for factual details, you get shot down. Very few people deny the residential school systems or that it was a bad idea. Or that government policy on FN's was self-defeating. But there is a strong desire currently to paint FN's as these holier than thou people that lived a life that was close to utopia at the time this was first implemented. I would love to see an educational component that covers both the good and bad of the various Indigenous cultures from pre-contact, contact and, implementation of the residential school system and attempts to change and reform it and government maleficence to stymie those changes, Sadly there are many people both indigenous and non-indigenous that do not want a real factual discussion as it does not serve their agendas.

Frances Widdowson was one of those who not only got shot down but lost her job as Associate Professor (Department of Economics, Justice and Policy Studies) at Mount Royal University for questioning First Nations policies and assumptions.

Into Wokism’s Raging Maw: Frances Widdowson at the University of Lethbridge | C2C Journal

Frances Widdowson discusses intellectual and moral degradation of Canada’s universities after an encounter at the University of Lethbridge.

c2cjournal.ca

 

[Weinie]

Here’s an interesting article that clarifies the Kamloops “search”

The Kamloops ‘Discovery’: A Fact-Check Two Years Later

TWO YEARS AFTER the claim rocked the world that “the remains of 215 children” had been found on the grounds of the former Kamloops Indian Residential School, we know much more than we did at the time.

www.dorchesterreview.ca

 

[Quirky]

These woke people will be irrelevant once they enter the real-world.

 

[suffolkowner]

Here’s an interesting article that clarifies the Kamloops “search”

The Kamloops ‘Discovery’: A Fact-Check Two Years Later

TWO YEARS AFTER the claim rocked the world that “the remains of 215 children” had been found on the grounds of the former Kamloops Indian Residential School, we know much more than we did at the time.

www.dorchesterreview.ca

hard to believe that one couldnt see a difference between discrete graves and tile runs, but the whole thing is shoddy