All things joining the military (but not wanting to deploy) - merged

[RCDtpr]

There are big repercussions for refusing to go on tour.  You may get in trouble, you may not, depending on how you go about it.  That doesn't mean there aren't other consequences.  Let me tell you a story.....

We had a guy who pretty much went through all of workup training etc etc.  Last minute he went to the padre and gave some nonsense excuse why he couldn't deploy.  He was pulled off tour and he thought he got what he wanted.  He has since been swept under the rug by the regiment and getting looked over for course after course. 

All of his friends, not the leadership, but his actual friends labeled him a coward and none of them will even so much as say hi to him in the morning.  He now comes to work and pretty much sits by himself all day.  He says getting himself removed from tour was the biggest mistake of his life.

So in short, yes, you can "refuse" to deploy if you join.  But expect to have a lonely unsatifying career with a handicapped chance at advancement.

 

[Nauticus]

I don't agree that the union, job specific attitude is a youth thing. I find it's usually the older crowd who are these hardcore union types. Even the government workplace that you described is populated by the older crowd, as opposed to the younger.

I don't see that attitude that you described as being a youth problem at all.

 

[Kat Stevens]

There are big repercussions for refusing to go on tour.  You may get in trouble, you may not, depending on how you go about it.  That doesn't mean there aren't other consequences.  Let me tell you a story.....

We had a guy who pretty much went through all of workup training etc etc.  Last minute he went to the padre and gave some nonsense excuse why he couldn't deploy.  He was pulled off tour and he thought he got what he wanted.  He has since been swept under the rug by the regiment and getting looked over for course after course. 

All of his friends, not the leadership, but his actual friends labeled him a coward and none of them will even so much as say hi to him in the morning.  He now comes to work and pretty much sits by himself all day.  He says getting himself removed from tour was the biggest mistake of his life.

So in short, yes, you can "refuse" to deploy if you join.  But expect to have a lonely unsatifying career with a handicapped chance at advancement.

Yup, shunned like an Amish crack dealer.  Right and proper thing.

 

[Steve_D]

Gotta say, Nauticus has a point with his comment on age.  The younger ones who have this 'union' attitude probably learned it from the older ones.

Guess there is attitude issues with all generations.

 

[Roy Harding]

I can't imagine why somebody wouldn't want to go on tour, if they were in the military. That's basically the point of the military, and if that's an issue, then that person should simply find employment elsewhere.

WAY back, I requested to not go on a tour.

Our youngest son was born VERY pre-mature - he weighed less than 2 lbs when born (in 1985 - when the technology was VERY good, but not quite what it is now), and spent the first three months of his life in the ICU.  After we brought him home, he didn't grow much at first.  The five bones that comprise your skull were beginning to "fuse" pre-maturely (any medics present feel free to correct my terminology), and the Doctors involved said he had to be scheduled for surgery to basically "break his skull", so that his brain could develop normally (baby's skulls are "soft" for a reason).  The surgery was scheduled right smack dab in the middle of the tour.

I was excused from the tour - no repercussions - everybody (friends and leadership both) accepted that I had a good reason to stay home from that particular tour.

I bring it up only to illustrate why sometimes one DOES need to stay home - and the individual involved doesn't necessarily need to find employment elsewhere.

For the curious:  That was the one and ONLY time I was ever on a Rear Party - it sucks big time.  The baby in question is now full grown, is a Registered Nurse, and curiously enough - employed in a major ICU in Edmonton.

 

[Steve_D]

Roy

One of the things that make us Canadians such wonderful people is that we hear your story and don't give it a second thought.  There are justifiable reasons to do or not do many things and yours is definitely justifiable.

Glad to read all is good now.

Steve

 

[owa]

I would be pretty upset if I couldn't get the job I wanted and I knew there were people who had that job who were not planning on accepting deployment.  Don't join if you won't deploy.  If you're not prepared to do what's expected of you, don't take spots away from people who would be more than willing to do the job.

 

[brihard]

Yes it was very fair IMHO.

Also, as a side note, if you were to get in complete your BMQ/ SQ/ DP1 and all TMST and make it all the way to KAF and then decide not to/ refuse to deploy forward to a FOB...it would be a very bad decision on your part.

Regards

I imagine there's some sort of precedent for this?

What consequences resulted?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

"88. (1) Every person who deserts or attempts to desert is guilty of an offence and on conviction, if the person committed the offence on active service or under orders for active service, is liable to imprisonment for life or to less punishment and, in any other case, is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years or to less punishment.

Pretty clear to me!

Not according to the Lieberal Party's Gerard Kennedy:

TORONTO — Canadian Parliament will consider a bill introduced Thursday that would allow American and other war resisters to stay in Canada.

The bill, introduced by the Liberal Party's Gerard Kennedy, would allow other countries' military deserters to stay in Canada if their refusal to serve is based on sincere moral, political or religious objections.

How can they allow another country's deserter, without penalty, and penalize their own under the NDA?

 

[c4th]

I haven't joined yet but Ive been wanting to get into artillery.

Let's say I completed BMQ, SQ, etc and at some time down the line my battalion/unit was called to Afghanistan and I refused to go. In short Im asking how do they deal with soldiers that have no intentions of going to Afghanistan?

(Moderator edit to clarify thread title.)

Well then you would be a coward.  I'm sure there will be recruiters or people who might encourage you to join and wear our uniform anyway, saying that there are lots who don't deploy etc etc...  That somehow being reg or reserve makes a difference.  I'm not one of them.  If you are willing to watch you 'friends' go to war while you cower safe at home we don't want you. 

I will make this easy on you and everyone else in the CF and artillery and I will try to be clear:  If you are having doubts about serving overseas DO NOT JOIN THE MILITARY IN ANY CAPACITY.  Ever!  If you do not want to go to war, armies, defence contractors and tim horton's are not the place for you.

Please do not take a single training position, one ration, one penny, one dot of printer ink, or one second of any soldier's time if you are planning to bail at this very early stage.

And please find another forum to troll.

 

[FDO]

Just so meveryone is clear, we ask all applicants if they are ok with spending ling periods of time away from home on training or deployment and we ask if they are ok with using a weapon to defend themselves or harm others. Of course like I said Padres don't get this. So before anyone is enroled they are asked if they will deploy when told. If they say no we stop the process and walk them out the door.

We had one person say they would deply if necessary but only to the USA or UK or anywhere in Canada. Yep 3 of the worlds greatest "hotspots" Needless to say we didn't save a spot for that file on the "active" side!!

Bottom line is we do try to thin the herd but if someone lies to us we have no way of knowing. I like the shunning part. We get the same thing in the Navy. Always seems the samne people have "famliy issues" when it's time to deploy. MInd you there is a big difference with someone who's left behind once

 

[Neill McKay]

By the same token, if you didn't like my answer, you didn't have to reply to it.

Absolutely right, and if you hadn't resorted to name-calling then I probably wouldn't have.

How can they allow another country's deserter, without penalty, and penalize their own under the NDA?

Don't give it another thought: private members' bills typically stand the proverbial snowball's chance in hell of getting passed (which is probably for the best, as it's not uncommon for them to have some pretty strange provisions).

 

[Neolithium]

So before anyone is enroled they are asked if they will deploy when told. If they say no we stop the process and walk them out the door.

As far as I'm concerned, this leaves some room for the rest of us who are willing to be ready to go, anytime, anywhere.  This is part of the reason I'm 27 and only applying now- my children are older, their health problems (which were numerous when they were first born) are now very well in check, to the point where it's not a concern for may of their specialists.  I can be confident that I won't need to back out of any training, or step away from a deployment because of something I knew might happen. Of course some random emergency or family circumstances may arise, but that can be said for any individual, and I still view having to step out as an absolute last resort, God willing, I"ll never need to consider that at all.

 

[FDO]

The people you work with know that if you have a family problem it needs to be dealt with. But my issue is the guys who have a family issue everytime. We left one guy back because his girlfriend threatened to leave if he went away. That one was our fault for leaving him back. It also started a whole thing with him. It was always one thing after another. We finally released him. but it took two years.  Sometimes you need time to deal with family before you deploy. It's not going to do you or anyone else any good if your mind is not in the fight.  Sometimes poop happens!

 

[Steve_D]

I agree with FDO.  You need to ensure that your family is on board or at least respect your decision to be a member of the CF and all that it entails. If not, then you could be in for a world of hurt. But remember, it is for you that you make these decisions.

When I was asked at my interview what my wife thought of me re-joining, I had to respond honestly. "she wants to know how soon she can help me pack" because she is 100% behind me and wants me to be happy again and have my career going again.

 

[RCDtpr]

I don't buy the whole my girlfriend, wife, partner, etc. will leave me if I deploy nonsense.  If my wife told me that she was going to leave me if I deployed, I'd hand her a suitcase and show her to the door.  If she was willing to break off a relationship over a measly 6 months then it was doomed from the start.

Unfourtunately a lot of the younger guys don't see it like that and give up their career, friends, tour money, and dignity because little Sara Beth can't handle half a year of him being away.

 

[vonGarvin]

Unfourtunately a lot of the younger guys don't see it like that and give up their career, friends, tour money, and dignity because little Sara Beth can't handle half a year of him being away.

Wow.  Just "wow".
:endnigh:

 

[Steve_D]

And then when he does go away, end up cheating on him anyway.

And the circle goes round and round.

 

[FDO]

For whatever reason some people don't see the big picture. I got out when I was going through a rough time. I thought if I got out I could save my marriage. Needless to say it wasn't the CF that was the problem. A couple of years after I  met a great woman, who after watching me lookout over the lake at a ship going by one day said "why don't you get back in" At the time we had a 5 year old and she had never been to Halifax. I went through the process and got back in. I was posted to a ship so went from Toronto to Halifax with a 6 year old and 1 month old. Got to Halifax and had 7 days to prepare for NATO. 6 months away. Not once did she complain or even give a hint that she was not happy. It's been over 20 years and since then we've gone through some things that would tear a normal family apart. It only made us stronger. She has since joined the CF and so has my son.

Joining the CF is as much a way of life as it a state of mind. It is NOT for the faint of heart or weak of mind. If you join with the idea that this is a 9 - 5 job you are not going to make it.

 

[cotea]

I think the problem is not that he doesn't know I think the problem is the general work ethic of the Canadain populace. People (in Toronto) tend to wander in for a meeting whenever they want 10 -15 minutes late or not show at all and demanding an other appointment. The best excuse is "the subway was late"  Alppicants come in between 0815 and 0830 for an 0800 CFAT and say "well I'll just do it now. What's the difference"...

Don't mean to bring back old posts but I went in for my CFAT last thursday and everyone who had an appointment were on time. Actually we were mostly all 15-20 minutes early. Half of the applicants were around 18-20 years of age. Only two applicants forgot to bring ID (yeah that's a bit of a DUH moment) but they went and got it or had parents around I believe. Overall, everyone showed alot of respect for the CF and everyone working there (We were at the Toronto recruiting center).

Here's the kicker though. The subway on thursday morning actually WAS late, and that's because a huge part of the subway line was down for unknown reason and I had to take two transfers to get back on track. I was also coming from Oakville by train which meant I had to wake up at 5 to make sure I had some spare time in case something happened (which it did).

All I'm saying is, sometimes it IS the subways fault. Sometimes it isn't. But I wouldn't generalize an entire generation over some incidents. As far as I remember there are unpunctual people from all ages and from everywhere. 

( I have a younger cousin who's a real pest though, but I blame MTV for that )