All Things Red Poppy Merged Thread (sales, copyright, usage, bans/restrictions, etc.)

[Ralph]

Funny that the Ontario premier is willing to introduce legislation to mandate that companies can't tell their employees what not to wear, but won't entertain making the day a statutory holiday...

 

[mariomike]

Funny that the Ontario premier is willing to introduce legislation to mandate that companies can't tell their employees what not to wear, but won't entertain making the day a statutory holiday...

See also,

Remembrance Day: National holiday?/"Veterans' Day"? (merged)
https://army.ca/forums/threads/22329.200
9 pages.

 

[Eaglelord17]

I am pretty sure the policy Whole Foods adopted was specifically to try and avoid this type of media backlash and controversy. It wasn't just the poppy they forbid on there uniform, it was literally EVERYTHING. I actually have some respect in regards to that as they aren't taking a stand on anything in particular rather being neutral (which is something I think the government in particular can learn from).

Either way they are screwed. They try to make a neutral policy they get backlash for enforcing it. They go the other way it turns into why don't you have this symbol or that symbol portrayed. I would hate to be media relations for a company now, you just can't win and because they change the meaning of all these symbols so quickly these days you can't stay ahead of it.

 

[lenaitch]

Funny that the Ontario premier is willing to introduce legislation to mandate that companies can't tell their employees what not to wear, but won't entertain making the day a statutory holiday...

When I was with our police service's ceremonial unit we obviously paraded every Remembrance Day.  In a small city with a very large resident police presence - the majority being non-shift workers who had the day off as a Stat by contract - the 'voluntary' turnout was often embarrassing, particularly compared to the elderly residents who bundled up and braved the weather.  As well, the local schools would send a buses of students.  If it was a general Stat, I think most people would just treat it like another day off.

Besides, statutory holidays have a labour cost to employers.

 

[Ralph]

Besides, statutory holidays have a labour cost to employers.

Yup.

 

[mariomike]

When I was with our police service's ceremonial unit we obviously paraded every Remembrance Day. 

I joined ours, after I retired. I missed the people.

You don't get full pay. But, there is a modest stipend for your time.

Besides, statutory holidays have a labour cost to employers.

Our collective agreement was,

If the employee works on the actual holiday the employee will be paid two (2) times his regular rate of pay for the time so worked and in addition shall be paid for the full day or night at his regular rate of pay.

That means triple time for the entire 12 hours.

( Our shifts were 12 hours. Not 10 or 8. )

Called in on  OT on Remembrance Day,  or any Stat.?  That's Golden Time. 

Amazing how many on the sick list booked themselves fit in time to work the stats. 

 

[Haggis]

Our emergency services respond, wearing poppies, without controversy.

Can the same can be said of the TBL patch?

Originally, yes.  But the meaning of the TBL symbol was perverted and became synonymous with oppressions by Whites over minorities and by the government over the people. 

Everybody (well, mostly) loves the poppy... for now.  Who knows if in five years the poppy will be co-opted by an anti-opioid activist group as representing the blood of those who died by overdose while society stood idly by silently supporting big pharma?

Yeah, it's a stretch but how many people expected BLM to hijack Toronto's Pride parade?

 

[mariomike]

Originally, yes.  But the meaning of the TBL symbol was perverted and became synonymous with oppressions by Whites over minorities and by the government over the people. 

Everybody (well, mostly) loves the poppy... for now.  Who knows if in five years the poppy will be co-opted by an anti-opioid activist group as representing the blood of those who died by overdose while society stood idly by silently supporting big pharma?

Yeah, it's a stretch but how many people expected BLM to hijack Toronto's Pride parade?

I'm not disagreeing with your politics. But, I'm saying that from the comfort and safety of home.

I remember what it was like being sent into big city housing projects at 0100 hrs., where it seemed like you and your partner were the only two white faces.

I always felt "likeability" was 90% of the job. We just wanted to get along.

 

[Blackadder1916]

Since it was the Whole Foods stupidity that kicked off this year's poppy outrage, I just noticed this (don't think it was yet mentioned on this thread).  They flinched.

https://calgaryherald.com/news/canada/whole-foods-workers-prevented-from-wearing-poppies-doug-ford-calls-move-disgusting/wcm/654763dc-8f6b-4ccf-8219-cad55bfd63e6

Canada’s veterans affairs minister Tweeted Friday that Whole Foods would be allowing its Canadian employees to wear poppies at work, after a move to initially stop the practice received criticism and prompted motions from politicians across the country.

Whole Foods had earlier said it had updated its dress-code policy last month, to specify a ban on anything other than the standard uniform, in an effort to clarify rules for employees.

“Whole Foods Market honours the men and women who have and continue to bravely serve their country,” a spokeswoman said. “With the exception of those items required by law, our dress code policy prohibits any additions to our standard uniform.”

However, after an online furore erupted against the move on Friday, it would appear the retailer has now backtracked.

“Just spoke to the Chief Operating Officer at Whole Foods,” said veterans affairs minister Lawrence MacAulay on Twitter. “Employees will now be able to wear their poppies at work.”

. . .

As Canadian politicos weigh-in on the issue with comments of disgust and threats of legal measures, I was taken by the approach from one . . .

The leader of the Bloc Quebecois, Yves-François Blanchet, said that while he disapproves of Whole Foods rule, he’ll express his disappointment by refusing to shop there, rather than legislating the problem away.

“I would rather have them let their employees wear it, but not to the point where I would make politics about it,” he said.

I had an initial, momentary sense of outrage but as I looked to see how I could express my dissatisfaction to Whole Foods management, I discovered that they don't have any outlets in Alberta (there had been some reports a couple of years ago about them opening in Calgary and Edmonton, but apparently those plans fell through); in fact, there are only 14 stores in Canada.  The sense I get from their on-line presence is that there is no separate Canadian corporate management chain, so these decisions were made in the United States where there is a very different awareness of the poppy or even our cultural meaning of November 11 as Remembrance Day.  To them it is Veterans Day; their day of honouring their war dead is Memorial Day in May.  On the two occasions (years ago) that I was in the USA on November 11 (on military business, in uniform, attending conferences) though there was some acknowledgement of the day, the conference agenda continued.  While some of the Americans were aware why we Canadians (and British) were wearing poppies, I was asked by several people what "that flower" was about.  And so, with a better understanding of the ignorance of Whole Foods management, my reaction has modified.  So, unlike M. Blanchet who has a physical location he can boycott, I have now limited my response to sending them a comment that they are dicks.

 

[lenaitch]

I joined ours, after I retired. I missed the people.

You don't get full pay. But, there is a modest stipend for your time.

You were lucky.  After retirement it was strictly voluntary except any out of pocket expenses for out of town gigs.

I was on ours for about 15 years fairly evenly split between working and post-retirement. 

 

[Eaglelord17]

Also if anyone wants to boycott Whole Foods they are a subsidiary of Amazon so you know where to stop shopping if you want to make a statement with your wallet.

 

[Journeyman]

.... except that the poppy has not (yet) been co-opted by any extremist groups.

Although the poppy symbol is owned by the Legion, including needing their concurrence for a Veteran plate, and actively defended against others' usage.

 

[Blackadder1916]

One of the signs of autumn is an inevitable objection by the RCL about unauthorized use of the poppy. This year the culprit is the City of Chestermere, Alberta who repainted a crosswalk.

Poppy crosswalk in Chestermere, Alta. unveiled at official event

A controversial tribute to Canada's veterans went ahead in Chestemere Sunday, despite some debate over the local initiative.

calgary.ctvnews.ca

CALGARY - A controversial tribute to Canada's veterans went ahead in Chestermere Sunday, despite some debate over the local initiative.
A series of poppies were painted on a crosswalk at Anniversary Park, home of the city's cenotaph, this week.

But the homage was met with some pushback from the national office of the Royal Canadian Legion, which was concerned with crossing feet and tires over the national image.

. . .

 

[Fishbone Jones]

If the RCL limited themselves to just the poppy, they might have a point. However, one only needs to look at all the poppy style commercialized, costume jewellery, coffee cups, etc that the legion now sells to see how they are 'safe guarding' the image. The only poppy image they have custody of is the iconic 4 petal poppy, pictured here. One of the reasons they have control is because the resulting donations all went to the Poppy Fund, which was set up to help Veterans. The fund is now used for team jerseys and a myriad of other things not related to Veterans. Any other poppy image, and there's lots, are beyond their purview and can be used by anyone.

 

[Cloud Cover]

You know Remembrance Day is close when judges, city councils, public schools and unions start banning the wearing of a Poppy to work.

FTR- I do believe the Indigenous Poppy is, in fact, a political statement. But wearing a poppy - either RCL or Indigenous - should never be banned by any public official, Honourable Judge or not….

https://twitter.com/x/status/1986604181877072311

 

[Booter]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatoon/saskatoon-prosecutor-upset-she-is-not-allowed-to-wear-a-poppy-in-court-9.6966489

Lots of it going around

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I get both sides of the argument. maybe some sort of bill in Parliament in this regard?

 

[The Bread Guy]

I get both sides of the argument. maybe some sort of bill in Parliament in this regard?

Yeah, that'll lead to a solution that'll make everyone happy, no matter who's in government

 

[Halifax Tar]

And our Judiciary continues to show Canadians they are corrupted and politicized.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Perhaps, it would help if the government, in its ads promoting the day, would stop talking about "remembering Canada's veterans". It's not veterans day, it's Remembrance day. It's not about us who serve or served, it's about those of us who didn't come back and made the ultimate sacrifice for the country. The confusion of adding all who served and turn it into something about veterans can be seen by some as a political message of support for military/war.

Absent friends!