Allowances - Post Living Differential (PLD) [MERGED]

[Furniture]

We definitely need some form of better representation and ability to bargain. The current people doing this for us seem to be duds.

I don't think it's the fault of the people at the table fighting for us, I think it's the system itself.

The CAF is set up based on the 19th through mid-20th century concept of militaries. You had a few specialists, a few leaders, and a lot of able bodied workers running around doing a lot of physical labour and basic soldiering. The CAF isn't really like that anymore, but our system still reflects that concept of a military.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Given the level of responsibility differences, I can't see good result for any RCMP / CAF comparison.

In the current CAF compensation model, RCMP officers on patrol would be tax free...

Disagree, especially if we compare billable hours.

"If the Queen King had to pay you by the hour, she he would be bankrupt"

 

[Halifax Tar]

I don't think it's the fault of the people at the table fighting for us...

I do.

I've said it before. I want more RAdm William Landymore in my GO/FOs.

 

[dapaterson]

Disagree, especially if we compare billable hours.

"If the Queen King had to pay you by the hour, she he would be bankrupt"

Sitting in unit lines doing nothing until it's 1600 is not "billable hours".

 

[PuckChaser]

Sitting in unit lines doing nothing until it's 1600 is not "billable hours".

If you're ordered to be there it is.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Sitting in unit lines doing nothing until it's 1600 is not "billable hours".

It's the employers responsibility to provide meaningful work, not the employee.

I expect activity/time management would become a whole lot more thorough in the CAF if they paid by the hour

We have experts who could show the CAF a thing or two. I'm willing to consult for a fee

If you're ordered to be there it is.

Bingo!

 

[Halifax Tar]

Sitting in unit lines doing nothing until it's 1600 is not "billable hours".

Where does this magical beast exist ? Man, I've been taking the Queen's and now the Kings shilling since 1999 and don't think I have ever sat around unit/ships lines until 1600 doing absolutely nothing.

And if you are, you're probably a shitty worker, because there is always something to be done; grab a broom.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Where does this magical beast exist ? Man, I've been taking the Queen's and now the Kings shilling since 1999 and don't think I have ever sat around unit/ships lines until 1600 doing absolutely nothing.

And if you are, you're probably a shitty worker, because there is always something to be done; grab a broom.

Only in Ottawa

Something something glass houses ..... don't throw stones

 

[Halifax Tar]

Only in Ottawa

Something something glass houses ..... don't throw stones

It never ceases to amaze me how we're all, or were, part of the same organization yet can have polar opposite experiences.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

In the current CAF compensation model, RCMP officers on patrol would be tax free...

Because no one in the CAF is operational unless they’re on a named op?

 

[Halifax Tar]

Because no one in the CAF is operational unless they’re on a named op?

There is a real inability of some folks to look outside the silos. I know, I share your frustration.

Side note.

I'd actually be ok with them being tax free when on patrol. Seems fair to me.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Where does this magical beast exist ? Man, I've been taking the Queen's and now the Kings shilling since 1999 and don't think I have ever sat around unit/ships lines until 1600 doing absolutely nothing.

And if you are, you're probably a shitty worker, because there is always something to be done; grab a broom.

As much as some people complain about this mythical idleness, there is the alternative where you are perpetually run on a shoestring budget. And we think Mental Health is bad now in the CAF LOL.

This is the default setting in a lot of Industries. Margins are tight and time is money. Everyday where I work now feels like a set of WUPS due to this. If we need 1.8 crews we won't order 2, we will order 1 and make do

Be careful what you wish for.

 

[Quirky]

If we absolutely have nothing to do, floors are Zamboni’d etc, we don’t sit around waiting for the 8 hour mark to hit. The days of go home early are few and far between anyway.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I used to be dead set against a union for the military, now I'm for them. Too many stories of people getting screwed around and screwed over. Maybe a union could have mitigated alot of that. Might have helped with retention too.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I used to be dead set against a union for the military, now I'm for them. Too many stories of people getting screwed around and screwed over. Maybe a union could have mitigated alot of that. Might have helped with retention too.

How does the CAF go about this without being mutinous?

 

[Jarnhamar]

How does the CAF go about this without being mutinous?

I wouldn't know where to begin. I suspect we would need some kind of hybrid system which takes into consideration the nuances of the military.

I knew someone who lost a bunch of weekends because he just happened to smoke the same brand of cigarettes of a cigarette butt found in the bottom of a range box.

I'm thinking in a union you wouldn't lose a few weekends as punishment for an unproven allegation.

I'm not sure how unions handle harrassment; is it more than a note on your file?

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Hypothetical Coles Notes on that situation you just described? Do the punishment, grieve, win, get cash and/or time settlement,...carry on.
Eventually someone might have to answer for the money wasted.

I know everyone is sick of me saying, but I'm a dick anyways so I'll say it again, all Unions do is make sure the rules/agreements are followed. They have NO other secret magical powers....

 

[mariomike]

I never filed a grievance.

The union's job was to negotiate the wages, benefits and working conditions we deserved.

If they were going to fire you, the union would send a rep to hold your hand.

Maybe they could save your azz. Maybe not.

 

[brihard]

How does the CAF go about this without being mutinous?

Closest legal analogue is the RCMP. They were prohibited from unionizing. Some of them created informal member associations in a few different provinces. One eventually brought a court action. It took a decade for decisions and appeals and more appeals before eventually the SCC said they could unionize. Then in took Parliament a couple years to come up with a legislative framework for them to get a union. Then, finally, they had to actually get something like 40 or 50% of their membership to sign up for a single potential bargaining agent. If my understanding is correct, there were actually competing prospective unions that delayed it further.

It would take serving CAF members willing to initiate and fund very lengthy legal action that they might not win. The legal question would be whether laws against a CAF bargaining agent impose on the freedom of association (they absolutely do), and whether this limitation on their freedoms is necessary and justified under s.1 of the Charter (which is where the RCMP court decision would be most informative). I can’t guess how it would go. If any organization would get a special exemption it would be CAF- or a court could rule a relatively narrow right to collectively bargain certain terms and conditions of employment.

It would be a pretty epic labour law story by the end of it.

I'm not sure how unions handle harrassment; is it more than a note on your file?

Most harassment is ‘blue on blue’, i.e., union member on union member. My experience in my employment is that the union will generally advise on the process to file to make a complaint, but will also represent the respondent if a harassment allegation is founded and results in a disciplinary process. However, repping someone in discipline mostly means making sure due process is followed. Since CAF is fantastic at following due process, I don’t see that they’d have anything to worry about.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

That may have been one of the most epic sarcastic lines in history....