Allowances - Post Living Differential (PLD) [MERGED]

[SupersonicMax]

One of my big frustrations on how pay and allowances negotiation happen is that everything is shrouded in Cabinet Confidence when the PS, represented by unions, have open and transparent status updates.

We hide everything until it’s too late to be heard.

 

[dapaterson]

The PS process maybe more open than the CAF, but it's hardly open and transparent.

 

[SupersonicMax]

The PS process maybe more open than the CAF, but it's hardly open and transparent.

At least the membership has a voice and a say in what’s offered. I said open and transparent status updates, not process..

 

[dimsum]

Since CAF is fantastic at following due process, I don’t see that they’d have anything to worry about.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I know, I was eating a bowl of cereal and nearly spit it all over the place when I read that! The sarcasm was just oozing out of that!

 

[Remius]

CAF members seem to hate having to pay mess dues. I can only imagine how they would feel about paying union dues. I know they aren’t the same thing, but I question their willingness to pay into a union.

 

[Halifax Tar]

CAF members seem to hate having to pay mess dues. I can only imagine how they would feel about paying union dues. I know they aren’t the same thing, but I question their willingness to pay into a union.

The difference is messes have lost the previously perceived value. I think they would be happy to pay a union dues if they felt that cost was benefiting them in a larger return, say like collective bargaining.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

CAF members seem to hate having to pay mess dues. I can only imagine how they would feel about paying union dues. I know they aren’t the same thing, but I question their willingness to pay into a union.

Union guys hate paying Union dues as well. I listen to their gripes about it all the time.

People hate paying for things period

 

[markppcli]

CAF members seem to hate having to pay mess dues. I can only imagine how they would feel about paying union dues. I know they aren’t the same thing, but I question their willingness to pay into a union.

My mess is open for 3 hours every Thursday and I pay full dues. If the union works 5 days a week I’ll happily pay.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

My mess is open for 3 hours every Thursday and I pay full dues. If the union works 5 days a week I’ll happily pay.

Union works 24/7 my man! Your Rep will be there for you when you need them.

 

[Remius]

The difference is messes have lost the previously perceived value. I think they would be happy to pay a union dues if they felt that cost was benefiting them in a larger return, say like collective bargaining.

Like I said I know they are different beasts but I wonder how people would vote in the CAF if that was in front of them as an option along with what their annual dues would be. And how much more would they be getting out of a union that they don’t already get with the free ride they get being linked to the PS.

I honestly don’t know the answer though.

 

[Remius]

Union guys hate paying Union dues as well. I listen to their gripes about it all the time.

People hate paying for things period

Well aware. Which I would assume would be a difficulty in getting up and running in an org like the CAF where right now they aren’t paying into a union.

 

[markppcli]

Union works 24/7 my man! Your Rep will be there for you when you need them.

Well I mean, in my brief period as a teamster I don’t know that I really got great value from my union rep, but they did actually make my employer respect things like drivers rest time.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Like I said I know they are different beasts but I wonder how people would vote in the CAF if that was in front of them as an option along with what their annual dues would be. And how much more would they be getting out of a union that they don’t already get with the free ride they get being linked to the PS.

I honestly don’t know the answer though.

I think if CAF labour did organize, then the messes should be folded up once and for all as a mandatory deduction of pay, and they should be an optional club like the Auto Hobby club.

 

[Remius]

I think if CAF labour did organize, then the messes should be folded up once and for all as a mandatory deduction of pay, and they should be an optional club like the Auto Hobby club.

I’m on board with optional messing in the CAF. I’m of the belief that supply and demand should determine the viability of messes. Plus I think that messes and mess events are the cause of some of our military cultural issues.

That being said would a CAF union get more value for money compared to what they get for free now?

 

[Halifax Tar]

I’m on board with optional messing in the CAF. I’m of the belief that supply and demand should determine the viability of messes. Plus I think that messes and mess events are the cause of some of our military cultural issues.

That being said would a CAF union get more value for money compared to what they get for free now?

What, exactly, do we get for free right now, WRT labour relations and collective bargaining, union stuff, ?

 

[Remius]

What, exactly, do we get for free right now, WRT labour relations and collective bargaining, union stuff, ?

It’s tied to PS union negotiations. Generally any pay increase in the PS is passed on to the CAF. I can’t be sure about allowances and entitlements under the NJC though and how those are negotiated but I suspect it’s tied to that as well.

 

[Halifax Tar]

It’s tied to PS union negotiations. Generally any pay increase in the PS is passed on to the CAF. I can’t be sure about allowances and entitlements under the NJC though and how those are negotiated but I suspect it’s tied to that as well.

While we tend to get pay bumps after the PS they are in no way bargaining for the CAF or representing us in labour relations.

 

[captloadie]

One of my concerns with a Unionized organization is would we then start to lose some of our benefits/allowances/etc. that are currently protected by statute? While I think it has reversed a bit in the last decade, there was a period of time where the public service traded away many of their benefits in exchange for higher wages. I like the fact that my pension, my leave, my access to medical/dental, tax free tours, and things I'm entitled to on transition and post career are currently protected. And yes, they could be changed on a whim of government, but they can't be negotiated away by senior members to benefit themselves at the expense of junior and future CAF members.

 

[dapaterson]

The biggest statutory risk would probably be repeal of the CFSA article restricting contribution rates to those of the PS. Were CAF members to pay half of the actuarial cost of their pensions, part I rates would likely increase by over 25%.

Many other elements of compensation are either regulatory or policy based.