Allowances - Post Living Differential (PLD) [MERGED]

[Furniture]

To be fair to TBS (I am shocked that I am coming to their defence), the CAF mishandled the PLD file for over a decade because no one wanted to upset the apple cart and change the rates annually.

Troops who needed help weren't getting it, troops who didn't need help were banking on it lasting forever, and we were going in the Red annually pretending that it wasn't going to come to a head eventually.

TBS stepped in and forced the CAF's hand to do something it should have done in 2010: amend the way it paid out the fixed budget.

Should that be a higher budget? Yes. That's not the case though. What would make better sense if for DND to build more infrastructure to support its personnel in these high cost areas and do away with the "fair market value" bullshit CFHA prides itself on.

Until then, I'm glad some of troops can stop living in their cars (actual thing happening in Kingston) or hot bedding in a one bedroom in Ottawa.

My understanding is the CAF had been fighting with TBS for years on fixing PLD to make it better for all members, and TBS wouldn't budge. So the CAF went with the "least" damaging option, not taking money away from members.

I agree that the CAF/GoC should have been investing in infrastructure to support members, but that should have been done at the same time PLD was being updated/added to.

My main point is, TBS/GoC don't place a priority on CAF problems, so things will continue to get worse. Then, when the CAF fails because of a lack of support, the GoC will act surprised and pass the blame to the CAF.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

My understanding is the CAF had been fighting with TBS for years on fixing PLD to make it better for all members, and TBS wouldn't budge. So the CAF went with the "least" damaging option, not taking money away from members.

I agree that the CAF/GoC should have been investing in infrastructure to support members, but that should have been done at the same time PLD was being updated/added to.

My main point is, TBS/GoC don't place a priority on CAF problems, so things will continue to get worse. Then, when the CAF fails because of a lack of support, the GoC will act surprised and pass the blame to the CAF.

I will agree that this is a multi-faceted problem that has come to a head now.

Like most things in the CAF/GoC relationship tactical, short term "gains" often blow up and cause strategic, long term losses that cost more to remedy.

I say this as I drive past acres of empty land where rows of PMQs once stood... while folks are in town paying 1800-2400 a month to live in a city of 128000 people.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I will agree that this is a multi-faceted problem that has come to a head now.

Like most things in the CAF/GoC relationship tactical, short term "gains" often blow up and cause strategic, long term losses that cost more to remedy.

I say this as I drive past acres of empty land where rows of PMQs once stood... while folks are in town paying 1800-2400 a month to live in a city of 128000 people.

Cost of living in this Country is out of control. Mostly due to our own stupid policies and overspending.

An area that nobody seems to focus on which has huge impact is our crumbling infrastructure.

Addressing Canada’s Transportation Supply Chain Crisis: the Final Report of The National Supply Chain Task Force 2022

International trade has contributed to more than half the value of Canada’s gross domestic product (GDP) each year since 1992. In 2021 alone, Canada’s merchandise trade amounted to approximately $1.24 trillion, its highest annual value of trade on record.

www.dentons.com

Our Ports are amongst the least efficient in the World with Vancouver being a serial laggard in terms of quality of service provided to Shippers.

It's also a single point of failure for us that is congested and has a militant General Public nearby.

There is zero leadership provided by the Federal Govt, I think the respective Provincial and Federal Govts treat shippers as a teet to be milked for money.


My opinion is we should give no financial subsidies to individuals ever, including in the Military. I am in more favour of tax breaks than giving people money. Tax breaks promote positive outcomes while subsidization to individuals usually promotes negative outcomes.

We should be spending on improving our infrastructure and improving velocity in our supply chains which will reduce prices for everyone.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Cost of living in this Country is out of control. Mostly due to our own stupid policies and overspending.

An area that nobody seems to focus on which has huge impact is our crumbling infrastructure.

Addressing Canada’s Transportation Supply Chain Crisis: the Final Report of The National Supply Chain Task Force 2022

International trade has contributed to more than half the value of Canada’s gross domestic product (GDP) each year since 1992. In 2021 alone, Canada’s merchandise trade amounted to approximately $1.24 trillion, its highest annual value of trade on record.

www.dentons.com

Our Ports are amongst the least efficient in the World with Vancouver being a serial laggard in terms of quality of service provided to Shippers.

It's also a single point of failure for us that is congested and has a militant General Public nearby.

There is zero leadership provided by the Federal Govt, I think the respective Provincial and Federal Govts treat shippers as a teet to be milked for money.

So very true. We pancake issues on top of one another and then are baffled when everything collapses under the weight.

This is all also true for passenger/freight rail (as you are well aware), air travel, as well as ground shipping.

We also have limited intermodal systems in place at major hubs to take that seacan off a ship, onto a rail car, and off to a major centre.

How does that feed in the PLD debacle? Cost of everything is raised exponentially because we can't move things fast, cheaply, and without paying a middle man to arrange the transfer. This is downloaded onto goods, services, and housing.

A lack of infrastructure to move people as well means commuting is more of a limiting factor in how we employ people. If it were a matter of hopping on a train for 30 minutes to get from Toronto to Montreal, who needs to be posted down the road?

But no. Throw money at the wrong problems... as is tradition.

 

[shiska]

I am in more favour of tax breaks than giving people money. Tax breaks promote positive outcomes while subsidization to individuals usually promotes negative outcomes.

There seems to be a trend in the past few years of just sending people cheques as a thinly veiled vote buying endeavour at both the federal and provincial level and regardless of party. Frankly I think it's gross and just a way to fool joe public.

 

[Quirky]

this is them telling us to stop overspending and stay within budget.

Coming from a government that's running Billions in deficits due to incompetence. $30million is a joke in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Rifleman62]

.....sending people cheques as a thinly veiled vote buying endeavour at both the federal and provincial level.....

Some people don't pay taxes due to their low income. The rest of them are getting cheques returning their own money paid as taxes

 

[OldSolduer]

Our Ports are amongst the least efficient in the World with Vancouver being a serial laggard in terms of quality of service provided to Shippers.

It's also a single point of failure for us that is congested and has a militant General Public nearby.

There are other outside influences in the ports. Without mentioning names there is a prominent organization that rids motorbikes that's said to be heavily involved in the ports and docks.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

There are other outside influences in the ports. Without mentioning names there is a prominent organization that rids motorbikes that's said to be heavily involved in the ports and docks.

And we should smoke em out.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

PLD wasn’t to “help those who needed it”. It was to offset the COL at a given location the GOC and CAF forced people to move to. It was to offset the COL for all, as everyone posted there was subj to a different QOL and finances.

My COL didn’t go down, I just don’t get PLD or Qual or CHD.

As me how high my GAFF is right now…I can tell you it’s not higher/improved.

 

[Lumber]

So with the new allowance in effect, does that mean the new pay is also in effect, and if so, does that mean back-pay cheques are coming soon? Or will this be a year-long roll out of back pay like the previous sea-pay adjustments?

 

[Stoker]

Wasn't there a mechasism to account for inflation

PLD wasn’t to “help those who needed it”. It was to offset the COL at a given location the GOC and CAF forced people to move to. It was to offset the COL for all, as everyone posted there was subj to a different QOL and finances.

My COL didn’t go down, I just don’t get PLD or Qual or CHD.

As me how high my GAFF is right now…I can tell you it’s not higher/improved.

I hear you man, made the mistake of paying my home off early so I lost it anyways. I'm glad people who didn't get it before and need it are getting it now. Not happy at the thousands who lost it and still need help and the mechanism set in place for people to eventually lose it.

 

[dimsum]

So with the new allowance in effect, does that mean the new pay is also in effect, and if so, does that mean back-pay cheques are coming soon? Or will this be a year-long roll out of back pay like the previous sea-pay adjustments?

Well, CAF Reddit seems to say that some folks have received some extra pay last night.

 

[markppcli]

Well, CAF Reddit seems to say that some folks have received some extra pay last night.

I think they’re talking about the pay statements.

 

[CountDC]

To be fair to TBS (I am shocked that I am coming to their defence), the CAF mishandled the PLD file for over a decade because no one wanted to upset the apple cart and change the rates annually.

Troops who needed help weren't getting it, troops who didn't need help were banking on it lasting forever, and we were going in the Red annually pretending that it wasn't going to come to a head eventually.

TBS stepped in and forced the CAF's hand to do something it should have done in 2010: amend the way it paid out the fixed budget.

Should that be a higher budget? Yes. That's not the case though. What would make better sense if for DND to build more infrastructure to support its personnel in these high cost areas and do away with the "fair market value" bullshit CFHA prides itself on.

Until then, I'm glad some of troops can stop living in their cars (actual thing happening in Kingston) or hot bedding in a one bedroom in Ottawa.

hmmm. While in Ottawa when they stopped updating the PLD and issued the TPLD the last year I was told by the LCdr I worked with that a big problem for them was that TB wanted to do away with PLD completely so the CAF didn't ask for changes knowing it would go bad for us.

 

[dapaterson]

hmmm. While in Ottawa when they stopped updating the PLD and issued the TPLD the last year I was told by the LCdr I worked with that a big problem for them was that TB wanted to do away with PLD completely so the CAF didn't ask for changes knowing it would go bad for us.

(a) There's TB, and TBS, and a differentiation must be made.

(b) The original PLD model was reliant on TB (a committee of cabinet) taking the necessary annual actions (on advice of staff), which is time consuming (at best).

(c) The new CAFHD model no longer relies on TB approval for updates, so those should be more regular.

 

[CountDC]

right - so to be clear he stated Treasury Board. The attitude received in the meetings he was privy to was of "why should CAF members get PLD when we don't". I found him to be a reliable officer and have no reason to doubt it.

 

[dapaterson]

right - so to be clear he stated Treasury Board. The attitude received in the meetings he was privy to was of "why should CAF members get PLD when we don't". I found him to be a reliable officer and have no reason to doubt it.

Has he ever been posted to DGCB? Briefed CDS, DM, MND or CHRO? Lots of rumour net, few folks who have actually sat down with TBS and had substantive discussion or debate.

 

[CountDC]

He was directly involved in numerous policies over his years in Ottawa including PLD and Leave. His last position that I worked with him was the SI/BOI/Grievances/RFC for the Navy (two of us was it). The two of us caught up a large backlog that was there when we took it on. I believe he did another year after they broke us up as he was fed up with the attitude of the job not being important enough to man as a primary function. The backlog of grievances we cleared up had files 5+ years old and we had it down to one year after less than a year.

 

[Navy_Pete]

I'm not sure that I'm complaining, but my pay stub finally came in and it seems to be quite a bit higher of an adjustment then I expected (based on the CAF broadstrokes estimate table), except it's hard to know what specifically they used in the calculation.

Is anyone else in the same boat? Guessing the estimate may have been using the baseline IPC or something to temper expectations, but I didn't think I was that much above the basic IPC. Guess it's time to dig out the old paystubs and do some math.

On one hand, gifthorse and mouth comes to mind, but the clawback process is just brutal, arbitrary and unexpected.