Allowances - Post Living Differential (PLD) [MERGED]

[armyvern]

Take for instance the theoretical example of an Edmontonian who joined a RegF unit in Edmonton.  That person would automatically qualify for PLD regardless of the fact that they already 'had a place to live,' and were not forced into this high cost environment.

Mistake,

Your problem with the above quote from you is that no member joins the RegF AND a Unit in Edmonton. A member joins the RegF, goes on his training and then MAY end up being posted to Edmonton. Of course, he MAY originally have hailed from Edmonton as well -- but that does NOT negate the fact that the CF (AFTER his joining the RegF) has POSTED him to Edmonton -- he could very well have been posted to Petawawa too through NO choice of his own. A member joining the CF owns that primary residence in Edmonton ONLY until the completion of his training, then, if he's lucky (or not) he may find himself being REQUIRED to pack up that residence and relocate it to another part of the country -- or he MAY (and may is the operative word here) find himself posted close enough to his old residence that he MAY still be able to live in it. That is NOT applicable to you, ergo the benefit entitlement is NOT applicable to you.

You CHOOSE to live in Edmonton with it's high cost of living, you are not subject to being forced to move anywhere where the cost of living MAY be higher.

HE didn't have a choice as to where the CF posted him upon joining the RegF. You as a ResF member --- willifully joined a ResF Unit located in your hometown of Edmonton. The cirucmstances between the 2 of you are VASTLY different.

 

[Gunner]

I think enough people have responded to Mistake.

 

[baccalieu]

There seems to be a great sense of entitlement going on here.  We are lucky that we work for DND.  I don't know of too many other companies who top up your salaries when you move to another "more expensive" region.

Other than the Military and possibly the RCMP, you wont find any other Federal employees who receive top ups or living allowances when relocated to non-Arctic or isolated postings in Canada . If there are others, their numbers would be very low..

By 10:33 a.m. yesterday, Canada's top 100 CEOs had earned $38,998 -- the same pile of money it will take the average full-time worker all year to make, the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives said yesterday in a report.

How many military pers earn this "average" Canadian wage of $38,998, sh.t most privates make more than that.

 

[Mistake]

Why is it that so many people have so much to say when a lowly maggot tries to get a few bucks that everyone else already gets.  You'd think it was your money and that I forced you to read my whiney little complaint session.  Let me ask you this, how does it effect you in any way?  Why are you so pissed off.

From Yukon
"Suck it up, so over the course of your year and a half of work up training and deployment your out about $3000..."

I don't know where you come from but three grand is a lot of money to me.  Words are cheap but $3712 would go a long way.  Im not crying over having to pay for a meal or about having to buy my own name tag,  this is big money.  I don't think I will suck it up, I think Ill go for the money instead.  Can you honestly tell me that you would just roll over and give up enough money to pay for a year of University or three months of mortgage payments.  YEAH RIGHT!

From ArmyVern
"There's a BIG difference --- the CF is NOT forcing you to live there, you have a choice in the matter."

Where's the choice.  Maybe I could manipulate the system and 'move' another 25 km from the city so that I would qualify for TD and R&Q but I don't think it should have to come to that.  As it stands, for the duration of my contract I have no choice but to reside in Edmonton.  Besides, I didn't choose to stay in Edmonton.  I volunteered for deployment and by chance was attached to a unit at the Garrison here.  Im not going to lie, I like being here, but don't try to tell me that it was my choice. 

From George Wallace,
"They are not unfair, nor unjustified.  It is your interpretation of them that is ill-informed,"

Yes, of course it is my interpretation.  It just so happens that my interpretation, unlike yours,  is shared by the CFGB.  Regardless of what both you and I have to say about each others 'ill-informed' judgments surely you must agree that the Canadian Forces Grievance Board is an authority on the issue and must therefore have a better understanding of the underlying complexities than either you or I. 

Also From George Wallace,
"WERE NOT FORCED are the key words there."

You missed my point, or maybe I explained myself poorly. Ill try again. Assume tomorrow I went RegF, I name either 1 or 3 VP as my preference and they let me keep my CPLs and keep my courses.  My choice, right.  Technically the army could tell me that Im actually going to be a Van Doo, but that doesn't happen, at least not lately.  So I stay in Edmonton and I sign a contract.  I do pretty much the same job and work the same hours and live in the same place but I would instantly qualify for PLD.  BOOM-5% raise.  I guess it could just be me, but I definitely see a double standard here. 

I realize that this is not always how it works and that we can't always choose our postings, but there is often a choice and it doesn't disqualify a RegF M like it does a ResF M.

Also From George Wallace,
"The Government wants to cut waste and costs.  Your application and contract was one method to do so."

Hey, I've got an idea.  We could just deduct a few thousand bucks from your next paycheque, you know, in the name of saving money.  I realize the army is cheap, good on them, but why is it a waste if the money is given to me, but perfectly justifiable when given to everybody else. 

Im still on leave for a few days so I could keep this up forever, but Im sure we all have better things to do so unless one of you guys address me directly Ill give it up and save my complaining for elsewhere.  I cant imagine that bickering with you guys will get me anywhere anyways.

Enjoy the rest of your holidays.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Mistake, all I can suggest is that if you don't like the advice you are receiving here, then you should be prepared to submit a grievance on the matter when you return to work.  Then you can put your effort toward seeking a change in the system.

Grievance Manual

 

[Gunner]

Yes, of course it is my interpretation.  It just so happens that my interpretation, unlike yours,  is shared by the CFGB.  Regardless of what both you and I have to say about each others 'ill-informed' judgments surely you must agree that the Canadian Forces Grievance Board is an authority on the issue and must therefore have a better understanding of the underlying complexities than either you or I. 

Irregardless that the CFGB shares your opinion, the CDS shares George's.  That's the one that counts for a redress of grievance.

Mistake, you are wrong as many people here are trying to tell you.  If you don't like it, submit a redress but be aware the same redress has been submitted before and not supported because you have not been unfairly treated.

 

[Disenchantedsailor]

Let me share a little perspective.  One of my junior hands a few years ago joined the navy from Victoria, this is in the days when Reg force BMQ's were conducted all over the place due to backlogs, he did his BMQ in Victoria, OSQAB, QL3 in Victoria, he was posted to a west Coast ship in Victoria,  he did not recieve PLD for a couple of years.  Sometimes the rules don't work the way we wan't them too, even for the reg force.

 

[-rb]

Sometimes the rules don't work the way we wan't them too, even for the reg force.

True enough, for as far as I know Reg Force members living in single q's are excluded from PLD as well. That being said, I would assume a reservist attach posted to a base living in a single q would also not be eligible for PLD?

 

[stealthylizard]

I can't wait to learn all this administrative stuff.  I forget most of what I learned when I was in the PR back in the 90's, and a lot of it has probably changed. 

 

[armyvern]

Why is it that so many people have so much to say when a lowly maggot tries to get a few bucks that everyone else already gets.  You'd think it was your money and that I forced you to read my whiney little complaint session.  Let me ask you this, how does it effect you in any way?  Why are you so pissed off.

If you didn't want the advice or for us to 'care' -- why'd you post it? Hoping some of us would back you up just because?? It seems to me that you posted with the hopes of hearing differently and having members back you up by saying "Oh look how the CFs screwing him around....", but it would seem to me that you aren't very happy to find out that the CF isn't screwing you around at all and that we don't prescribe to your sense of entitlement to this benfit.

From ArmyVern
"There's a BIG difference --- the CF is NOT forcing you to live there, you have a choice in the matter."

Where's the choice.  Maybe I could manipulate the system and 'move' another 25 km from the city so that I would qualify for TD and R&Q but I don't think it should have to come to that.  As it stands, for the duration of my contract I have no choice but to reside in Edmonton.  Besides, I didn't choose to stay in Edmonton.  I volunteered for deployment and by chance was attached to a unit at the Garrison here.  Im not going to lie, I like being here, but don't try to tell me that it was my choice. 

Go ahead and move another 25km -- you wouldn't be entitled to TD or R&Q at that point either because you'd be doing that by choice. Do you get it yet? There is a world of difference between "personal choice" and "ordered to report for duty at location XXX". Your living situation has nothing to do with the CF. YOU are there by your choice, and were also so before the CF came into the picture. Did you join the CF ResF simply in expectation that they would then begin paying you extra to compensate you for choices you made rather than decisions THEY made for you? If you couldn't afford Edmonton -- you as a ResF member had the opportunity to say "no" to a C Class contract there (if you are originally from outside of Edmonton) -- you chose not to. And that CHOICE is NOT applicable to members of the CF who finds themselves with posting messages in hand -- they either "GO" or "Get Out". Your situation is not comparable.

Enjoy the rest of your holidays.

You too.

 

[navy-nesop]

Here is my 2c,

Reservist service is part-time, is it not.  Unless you get class C, I believe.  Can anyone find another part time job that compares to the Military.  I don't think McDonald's treats their employees as good as the Military does.  On top of that, if you want, you can get hired full time by a simple transfer.  They will even recognise your part-time spent with them.  After the reg forces, you can transfer back to reserve so you can relaxe and enjoy the rest of your carrier.

My thinking is "if you don't like your job or the conditions, quit!"

I probably have a few reasons of my own to complain.  You can read an another post I did. http://forums.navy.ca/forums/threads/69215.0.html

But the way I see it.  Conditions are great if you add all of them together, the friendship is exceptional and they might even let me shoot a missile again some day.

Think of what you have instead of what you could have.

this is navy-nesop, over

 

[dapaterson]

Navy-NESOP:

You're a little out of your lanes here.

There are three classes of Reserve service, labelled A, B and C.  Class A is the traditional part-time model.

Class C is employment on operations (including prep and post-deplyoment).

Class B is other full-time service - whether on course, in support of the Reserves, or, increasingly, supporting the Regular Force, largely by backfilling the many holes in the Reg F structure.

Right now over 40% of certain rank levels in the LFC Primary Reserve are employed on full-time service (class B or class C).  To be blunt, the CF would collapse without the thousands of full-time Reserve personnel working today.  CFRCs are manned by hundreds of reservists; hundreds more work in the training system.  Others work at bases and at all levels of HQs.

Unfortunately, many of the senior advisors who are "reservists" in NDHQ have never served a single day of class A service in their lvies.  Rather, they are ex-Regular Force members who are double-dipping:  collecting a full pension for their Reg F service while working full-time as a Reservist (for 330 days per year).  Someone with a 30 year Reg F career will earn 135% of their former pay as a full-time Reservist (pay and pension) - is it any wonder that theyt don't see the need for PLD and certain other benefits for Reservists?  They are better off, with more time off (paid and unpaid) than ever before.

I don't begrudge PLD or other benefits to the Reg F.  But for how long?  We have Reg F pers refusing postings - shouldn't that be grounds to terminate PLD?

 

[George Wallace]

Just to add:

Class A and Class B are paid an equivalent of 85% of what their compatible Regular Force pay is through the Reserve Pay System.

Class C is paid the same as Regular Force from the Regular Force Pay System.  This causes some problems on termination of contracts.

Most points regarding entitlements to PLD have already been covered ad nauseum already, but suffice it to say, personal choices by the member do have consequences on one's entitlements, be they Regular or Reserve Force.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Just one more thing don't forget the elusive class B/A position  ;D

 

[Disenchantedsailor]

A the good old class B annotated A, had a few of those myself.

 

[dapaterson]

(we're veering off topic here):  There are both class B annotated A and class B positions out there.  Even the "short term" class B positions can be establoshed for up to 3 years.  Relocation benefits attach to any position of over 12 months, including PLD.  (There we go - back on topic!)

 

[darmil]

Mistake just suck it up. like me get through the tour then like me can go back to making the same as a major let the gov't keep the $200.

 

[NCRCrow]

$374 for Halifax is a joke. This town (province) is overtaxed and corrupt!  Gas just hit 116 here!

But I remember when it was called Triple A and it was 30 dollars.

Now I heard a fiflty rumour about paying for parking in Dockyard! 1.50 for the bridges. Maybe I should get a bus pass!

Nah!

 

[niceasdrhuxtable]

$374 for Halifax is a joke. This town (province) is overtaxed and corrupt!  Gas just hit 116 here!

But I remember when it was called Triple A and it was 30 dollars.

Now I heard a fiflty rumour about paying for parking in Dockyard! 1.50 for the bridges. Maybe I should get a bus pass!

Nah!

You are correct about the parking but it's not just for the dockyards.

http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/029-09_e.asp

 

[Sub_Guy]

That CFAO came out in 96, when are they going to start charging people for parking?

Its been a while since I have wandered around Halifax, but when I was there, the transit system did not provide regular service to dockyard, they only ran buses in the morning and quitting time.  Has this changed?

Paying 1.50 for the bridge is robbery, considering the same bridge in Vancouver got rid of its toll in 1963.

Taken from the CFAO
9. Exemptions. In accordance with the discretionary authority that has been granted to the Deputy Minister to cover specific situations, an exemption of parking charges applies:

  1. to large installations at bases and dockyards, where parts of their installation are more than 500 metres away from a regularly scheduled public transit service stop, and where there is sufficient parking to meet reasonable demand. This exemption does not apply to a unit geographically separate from the base that does not meet these criteria. It applies to bases and the lodger and integral units supported by these bases provided.