Allowances - Post Living Differential (PLD) [MERGED]

[Lex Parsimoniae]

As for the Orderly Room, you should make a formal complaint.  I would start with the Superintendent Clerk, but if he/she brushes it off, enlist the aid of your Chain of Command.  If that fails, call the military police (I'm serious).  Don't let anyone tell you that they can't determine who passed the information until you see a police report.

I'm not sure about the MP complaint route.  Certainly ask the BOR if somebody passed your personal info (as opposed to answering a generic question such as "has PLD been cancelled for town x?") and then decide on your next route.  Note that filing an MP complaint would involve explaining to the MPs about your little white lie and that would form part of the record.

Your landlord doesn't need to call your BOR to verify your PLD "status".  She could Google PLD and she would discover that only the following are not eligible for PLD:

* A member whose principal residence is not in Canada. The specific needs of this individual are addressed through Military Foreign Service benefits.
* A member whose principal residence is located at an isolated post. Where applicable, the specific needs of this individual are addressed through Isolation Allowances.
* A member whose principal residence is a single quarter. Single quarter rates are standardized nationally, that is, they do not change as a result of differences in rental markets.
* A member on Class "B" or "C" Reserve service who was not relocated at public expense to his/her place of duty for the purpose of Reserve service.
* A member whose principal residence is not in a Post Living Differential Area.

Not that your PLD has anything to do with her withholding your damage deposit!!!

 

[jside86]

Of course, I was aware that all base commander where working on it...

It just that since PLD seems to be the main subject of discussion around the base
I though asking people opinion around would be the best idea

I will enjoy my time in wainwright even if I don't have a PLD
Even if most of the people I know doesn't understand the idea why someone would want to be posted here
Wainwright is a lovely town with all services

And for the people stating that price is lower in wainwright is lower, yes it is true... Approximately 20 30 g cheaper
But I own two town  house one in Edmhonton one here both in the 230 g mark

And yes the one in wainwright is newer for same price but still you wont find much under 200 that is decent
And market chose is limited and I mean real limited

I am not complaining of the situation I just have normal question regarding PLD

Thanks everyone

 

[Pusser]

Note that I said to call the Military Police only after other queries had failed to produce results.  If the Supt Clerk comes back and says that the matter has been thoroughly investigated and he/she is confident that no breach of personal privacy has occurred, I would be prepared to accept that.  I would only bring in the MPs if I felt I was being brushed off and no investigation had occurred.  Make no mistake, if someone has given out personal information of this nature, an offence has occurred.  I will concede that someone could have given out general information (which is acceptable) that has then been interpreted by the landlord to mean something more specific, but a proper investigation will discover that.

Don't let anyone tell you that this is not a serious issue.  Breaching confidentiality of personal records is extrememly serious.  We place a great deal of trust in RMS Clerks and if one of them breaches that trust, the whole occupation loses credibility.  The day to day administration of the CF requires the exchange of personal information amongst parties who need to have it.  Without this exchange, the system breaks down and life gets difficult, if not impossible.  I've had to deal with cases where members have felt their privacy has been breached by the system and the situations were untenable to the point where there was no solution to a problems.  These were nightmares.

 

[Pusser]

PLD is not strictly about housing costs.  All factors related to the cost of living are taken into consideration, including:

1) housing costs (including rental rates)
2) all taxes (property and income)
3) food - based on a "basket" of staple goods
4) fuel and utility charges

And the list goes on to even include how hilly the terrain is (hilly terrain uses more gas when driving compared to flat areas).  In short, the determination of PLD rates is fairly complex, so it is impossible to only look at isolated factors and make a valid comparison.

Are you sure that Suffield gets Isolation Allowance?  It's not listed in the Isolated Post Instructions (http://hr3.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/dgcb/cbi/pdf/CBI_11_Sec_2.pdf). 

 

[FSTO]

PLD is not strictly about housing costs.  All factors related to the cost of living are taken into consideration, including:

1) housing costs (including rental rates)
2) all taxes (property and income)
3) food - based on a "basket" of staple goods
4) fuel and utility charges

And the list goes on to even include how hilly the terrain is (hilly terrain uses more gas when driving compared to flat areas).  In short, the determination of PLD rates is fairly complex, so it is impossible to only look at isolated factors and make a valid comparison.

Are you sure that Suffield gets Isolation Allowance?  It's not listed in the Isolated Post Instructions (http://hr3.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/dgcb/cbi/pdf/CBI_11_Sec_2.pdf).

In Saskatchewan:

1) housing costs (including rental rates) - Rental and Real Estate costs between Regina and Saskatoon are pretty much the same
2) all taxes (property and income) -  Income and Property Tax for the two cities - equal
3) food - based on a "basket" of staple goods - Food costs - the same
4) fuel and utility charges - Sasktel, Sask Power and Sask Energy charge the same rate no matter where you live in Saskatchewan. Difference for gas is never more than 2 cents a litre

But the PLD for the 3 cities in Saskatchewan:
Moose Jaw - 284
Saskatoon - 382
Regina - 62

Nobody has ever explained to me or my CO why there is such a difference between Regina and the other two cities. Two of the responses have been "its complicated" or "our methodology is confidential". Why can't they say "We screwed up but we are unable to change it until TB says we can" instead of this CWA BS they always toss at us.

 

[Pusser]

In Saskatchewan:

1) housing costs (including rental rates) - Rental and Real Estate costs between Regina and Saskatoon are pretty much the same
2) all taxes (property and income) -  Income and Property Tax for the two cities - equal
3) food - based on a "basket" of staple goods - Food costs - the same
4) fuel and utility charges - Sasktel, Sask Power and Sask Energy charge the same rate no matter where you live in Saskatchewan. Difference for gas is never more than 2 cents a litre

But the PLD for the 3 cities in Saskatchewan:
Moose Jaw - 284
Saskatoon - 382
Regina - 62

Nobody has ever explained to me or my CO why there is such a difference between Regina and the other two cities. Two of the responses have been "its complicated" or "our methodology is confidential". Why can't they say "We screwed up but we are unable to change it until TB says we can" instead of this CWA BS they always toss at us.

I guess I wasn't clear enough.  The calculation of PLD includes all of these things, but it also includes many other things, which cannot possibly be the same in every location.  No, I don't know all the factors.  I don't work there anymore, but I do know that there are people working very hard on this and no one is trying to screw anyone over.  However, there is a TB approved formula and the numbers are what the numbers are.  When the factors change, so does PLD and TB doesn't mess with that.

 

[FSTO]

I guess I wasn't clear enough.  The calculation of PLD includes all of these things, but it also includes many other things, which cannot possibly be the same in every location.  No, I don't know all the factors.  I don't work there anymore, but I do know that there are people working very hard on this and no one is trying to screw anyone over.  However, there is a TB approved formula and the numbers are what the numbers are.  When the factors change, so does PLD and TB doesn't mess with that.

But what are the "many other things"? Saskatchewan is a pretty homogeneous place and Moose Jaw and Regina are only 45 min apart and there has never been an explanation of how there can be such a difference between two cities. If we got an explanation there would not be all this suspicion and hostility towards the PLD office. 

 

[Grunt_031]

There are these items to consider because two places may be similar but are never the same:

The household expenditure pattern, including the category weightings, will be based on the Canadian average for a household of similar income and family size, as described in the Statistics Canada Family Expenditure Survey (FAMEX).

Cost of living differences will be determined by the pricing of a representative selection of the items in the FAMEX and any additional items determined by DND as being necessary to meet the CF requirement. As a minimum, the data collected and representative items priced will provide sufficient indication of spatial differences in expenditure by the representative household in the following categories:

  1. income tax - the total combined federal and provincial income tax paid annually;
  2. transportation - total annual cost;
  3. rent for renters and mortgage interest for homeowners;
  4. property (real estate) tax for homeowners;
  5. home maintenance cost for homeowners;
  6. household/renter insurance;
  7. utilities;
  8. goods and services, to include:
        1. food items (consumed at home and away from home);
        2. clothing;
        3. household items, including furniture;
        4. personal care;
        5. medical and dental care;
        6. domestic services, including child-care;
        7. recreation; and
        8. alcohol and tobacco.
  9. expenditure on sales tax, if not included in the pricing of relevant items; and
  10. miscellaneous items, to include expenditures not included elsewhere (e.g., education costs) and savings and investments.

Homeowner costs will be based on:

  1. the home size indicated by the Canadian average expenditure profile;
  2. home purchases for the last 12 months (12 months may be expanded for locations where there is insufficient real estate market activity for meaningful analysis);
  3. the rolling average interest rate for a five-year closed mortgage; and
  4. a 20% down-payment.

 

[PuckChaser]

  4. a 20% down-payment.

Unless you've banked a 9 month tour worth of money, who the heck as a first time buyer has a 20% downpayment?

 

[Grunt_031]

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dgcb-dgras/ps/db-as/pld-ivc/index-eng.asp

 

[jside86]

that is true nobody can pay a down payment when they have a family to feed and a pmq to pay

20 % its a lot of money for these day

 

[Zoomie]

I wish I lived in a town with a house that is still in the $200,000 range.  Numerous places that have a heck of a lot higher costs associated with living there are not on the PLD list.  The last two three places I have lived have been without the padding of extra money.  Comox, Portage and now here in Oklahoma City.  Portage is/was just as desolate sounding as Wainwright.

 

[jside86]

...

You wont find any decent House in wainwright under the 300 400 G and market is limited

for 240 and up is available some townhouse or duplex so yes housing is expensive

I wish I lived in a town with a house that is still in the $200,000 range.  Numerous places that have a heck of a lot higher costs associated with living there are not on the PLD list.  The last two three places I have lived have been without the padding of extra money.  Comox, Portage and now here in Oklahoma City.  Portage is/was just as desolate sounding as Wainwright.

 

[Pusser]

I wish I lived in a town with a house that is still in the $200,000 range.  Numerous places that have a heck of a lot higher costs associated with living there are not on the PLD list.  The last two three places I have lived have been without the padding of extra money.  Comox, Portage and now here in Oklahoma City.  Portage is/was just as desolate sounding as Wainwright.

It's a little unfair to put Oklahoma City on this list.  When serving in a foreign country you're entitled to Foreign Service Premium, Salary Equalization Factor, and Shelter Allowance/Share.

 

[EpicBeardedMan]

Just an update..my ex landlord refuses to give back my deposit so I've attached my forwarding address to her door (took a pic) which is the legal thing to do because I plan on taking her to court. She "invites" me to pursue legal action and said that she will get a WRITTEN STATEMENT from the PO at the ORDERLY ROOM that my PLD was in fact not cancelled and that I lied to her. Wtf? Does this seem ridiculous to anyone else?

 

[ballz]

Just an update..my ex landlord refuses to give back my deposit so I've attached my forwarding address to her door (took a pic) which is the legal thing to do because I plan on taking her to court. She "invites" me to pursue legal action and said that she will get a WRITTEN STATEMENT from the PO at the ORDERLY ROOM that my PLD was in fact not cancelled and that I lied to her. Wtf? Does this seem ridiculous to anyone else?

It is ridiculous, she's a complete nutter (like I said, hope it's not a good friend of yours that is replacing you) but

1. Ask for a copy. I doubt she'll be able to get that, but if she can, then you've got exactly what you need to take serious action on the military side of things (depending how it's worded of course).

2. Don't worry, the judge will just laugh at her reason for withholding the damage deposit.

These kind of scenarios always remind me of that Verizon phone call where every single person the poor guy talked to could not understand the difference between 0.01 dollars and .01 cents. Very frustrating stuff, try not to let it drive you mad!

EDIT: Thanks for the update though, please continue to do so in the future!

 

[armyvern]

Just an update..my ex landlord refuses to give back my deposit so I've attached my forwarding address to her door (took a pic) which is the legal thing to do because I plan on taking her to court. She "invites" me to pursue legal action and said that she will get a WRITTEN STATEMENT from the PO at the ORDERLY ROOM that my PLD was in fact not cancelled and that I lied to her. Wtf? Does this seem ridiculous to anyone else?

Well now ... that narrows down the search for her source somewhat ...

I'd be saying, "OK, let's go get it right now then ..."

 

[QORvanweert]

Just an update..my ex landlord refuses to give back my deposit so I've attached my forwarding address to her door (took a pic) which is the legal thing to do because I plan on taking her to court. She "invites" me to pursue legal action and said that she will get a WRITTEN STATEMENT from the PO at the ORDERLY ROOM that my PLD was in fact not cancelled and that I lied to her. Wtf? Does this seem ridiculous to anyone else?

I recently sued Canadian Tire and won, so don't be afraid of calling her Small Claims court bluff. Assuming you are located in BC you have several avenues of recourse:
http://www.rto.gov.bc.ca/content/rightsresponsibilities/security.aspx
"1.2.2 When does the tenant get the security deposit and pet deposit back?
A landlord must return the security deposit or pet damage deposit within 15 days of the tenancy ending or receiving the tenant's forwarding address in writing, whichever is later. The landlord may keep some or all of the deposit if they have the tenant's written consent or a valid Monetary Order from the Residential Tenancy Branch that can be applied against the deposit.

A landlord must provide interest on the security deposit and pet damage deposit. The interest may be calculated on the Residential Tenancy Branch's free Deposit Interest Rate Calculator.

A landlord's or tenant's right to make a claim for a security deposit or pet damage deposit is affected by their participation in the move-in and move-out condition inspections. Claims for damages to the rental unit may be made independently of a claim for the Security Deposit.

Security deposits paid to landlords on or before December 31, 2003 may be retained until the end of the tenancy; however, a landlord who does not return or file a claim against the deposit at the end of the tenancy may be required to pay the tenant double the amount of the deposit."

She clearly does not have a Residential Tenancy Branch order to hold your deposit as this would involve claiming it which can't be done without a move in report. She actually owes you double and you need to go grieve this immediately otherwise you are never going to see your money again. Small Claims' clerks won't even look at your case if you haven't already gone through the Housing Board. You mention several times that you are concerned that she has already spent the money. While it seems like a petty fear, you can rest assured that unless she is an incorporated property manager, she owns something of value so one way or another you will get your deposit back. I cannot comment on the BOR fiasco as there are members here far more qualified to do so. I do admonish you for not just biting the bullet and being honest in the first place. She is clearly just bluffing but you lost the moral high ground once you lied about why you were leaving, regardless of how good your intentions were. As someone who has been through the legal system I would very strongly caution you against fudging the truth for other people's feelings, especially since your recourse will inevitably be so difficult. Best of luck and if you want more links just pm me.

 

[EpicBeardedMan]

Update: She sent me an email stating that she spoke to the tenant's board and was advised that she has no claim to my deposit, so she's mailing it to me at the address i provided.

;D

 

[ballz]

Glad to hear it worked out for you and you avoided most of the fuss.