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Another Shooting in T.O., and one Councillor wants the army to come in.

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Rayman said:
I dont nessecarily think its nothing Hatchet. I went to school in that area and all over the place you would see the JF Bloods symbol all over the place. However the number of wannabees as opposed to those who are actually sworn members of the gang well...those are through the roof there.

Like I said, the use of blood/crip monikers is a "look cool factor" for any gang outside of LA.  It not like the blood/crips from LA have been going around setting up chapters like Biker Gangs.  They are just two names that have poplularized and glamourized by the media and various rappers.  Like I already said two "blood" gangs went after each other last year, for control of the drugs and guns in Jane/Finch.
 
'Send In The Army,' City Councillor Pleads In Response To Violence In His Ward
Thursday December 6, 2007
CityNews.ca Staff

A Toronto city councillor is so fed up and frustrated with the violence plaguing his ward, he wants the federal government to send in the army to deal with it.

Giorgio Mammoliti, who represents York West, contends neither the city nor Toronto police have what it takes to deal with the gang activity and resulting bloodshed. He wants to see an end to it by any means possible. The councillor was especially riled up after Wednesday's arrest of a suspect in connection to a gun battle that broke out near Jane St. and Sheppard Ave.

Amazingly no one was hurt, but city workers narrowly escaped being struck when a bullet hit the front end of their truck.

Schoolchildren were heading to class at the time and could easily have been caught in the crossfire.

Mammoliti believes the army could make a real impact in the area.

"The army can come in here and deal with things this way they feel they need to be done and they got a whole new set of rules," the city councillor asserts. "And I know this community would want to see that happen. We know who the gang members are and it's time that we deal with them the same way we'd deal with anyone else that comes in with arms and takes over communities."

Located in northwest Toronto, York West is bounded by the Humber River to the west, Steeles Ave. West to the north, Jane St. to the east and Highway 401 to the south.

It's the same area where 11-year-old Ephraim Brown died in the crossfire of a gang gun battle last summer. There have been 15 homicides so far in 2007 in 31 Division, which covers the region.

Investigators are still looking for one suspect in connection with Wednesday's shootout.
 
http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_17422.aspx

Chief Bill Blair Condemns Councillor's 'Call In The Army' Request
Thursday December 6, 2007
CityNews.ca Staff

Former Toronto Mayor Mel Lastman was widely ridiculed when he called in the army following a series of debilitating snow storms in 1999.  After watching the largely negative reaction Lastman's initiative received, most thought the armed forces wouldn't be called back to the city barring an unlikely invasion or terror attack. 

But York West councillor Giorgio Mammoliti wants something done about the gun-toting gangsters that are terrorizing his ward, and he doesn't apologize about his recent remarks concerning bringing the military into the neighbourhood, not to clear snow, but to clear the streets of dangerous criminals. 

Mammoliti contends neither the city nor Toronto Police have what it takes to deal with the gang activity and resulting bloodshed. He wants to see an end to it by any means possible. The councillor was especially riled up after Wednesday's arrest of a suspect in connection to a gun battle that broke out near Jane St. and Sheppard Ave.

Amazingly no one was hurt, but city workers narrowly escaped being struck when a bullet hit the front end of their truck.

School children were heading to class at the time and could easily have been caught in the crossfire.

Mammoliti believes the army could make a real impact in the area.

"The army can come in here and deal with things this way they feel they need to be done and they got a whole new set of rules," he asserts. "And I know this community would want to see that happen. We know who the gang members are and it's time that we deal with them the same way we'd deal with anyone else that comes in with arms and takes over communities."

Not surprisingly, Toronto's Police Chief is condemning the idea. Bill Blair has released a statement professing faith in his men and women, accusing the councillor of not "knowing the facts".

"Councillor Giorgio Mammoliti's comments do a disservice to the men and women of the Toronto Police Service and to the citizens of Toronto," he writes. "The anti-violence strategies of the Toronto Police Service, together with the cooperation and commitment of the residents of communities affected by violence, have in fact led to an increase in the number of arrests in such incidents.

"It is unfortunate that Mr. Mammoliti chose to make the remarks he did without knowing the facts. I want the members of the Toronto Police Service to rest assured that I, and the majority of Torontonians, continue to appreciate their efforts."

Located in northwest Toronto, York West is bounded by the Humber River to the west, Steeles Ave. West to the north, Jane St. to the east and Highway 401 to the south. Area residents were mixed on whether the presence of the military would make a difference.

"I don't think it's a good idea because I think it will create more problems," one woman said. "They might retaliate by trying to, you know, win their fight or whatever it is they're fighting for."

Another man added, "I would hope we could deal with it inside our own walls but it's a measure that is perhaps warranted."

It's the same area where 11-year-old Ephraim Brown died in the crossfire of a gang gun battle last summer. There have been 15 homicides so far in 2007 in 31 Division, which covers the region.

Cops have now released the name of the man tackled in that dramatic takedown raid. He's 27-year-old Richardo George Shackleford and he was in court Thursday facing 13 charges, including attempted murder and careless use of a firearm.

Investigators are still looking for one suspect in connection with Wednesday's shootout. He's described as:

Black,

Mid-20s,

Puffy jacket,

Jeans

Call police if you know who - or where - he is.
 
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2007-12-06-jamaica-violence_N.htm

Jamaica calls on army to help police curb violence

KINGSTON, Jamaica (AP) — Jamaican soldiers will join police on patrols on the Caribbean island in a new strategy to fight rising violence, the prime minister said.
Nearly 60 homicides over the last week have pushed the number of victims this year beyond 1,430, police spokesman Karl Angell said. Most of the violence has been linked to gangs in the capital, Kingston, and the rural parishes of St. Catherine, Clarendon and St. James.

"We are going to use every resource to deal with this monster," Prime Minister Bruce Golding told a news conference late Wednesday.

Soldiers have been mobilized in the past to help quell violence on a temporary basis, but Golding said he would assign troops to crime patrols as a long-term strategy.

He said the Jamaica Defense Force soldiers may be given the same powers as police officers, but he did not elaborate or specify how many would be assigned to help the 8,000-strong police force. He said he would meet later this week with Jamaica's army chief and police commissioner.

Nineteen police officers were among those slain this year in Jamaica, including a police sergeant gunned down Thursday morning in Montego Bay, Angell said.

The crime rise has frustrated police efforts to reduce bloodshed after a record-breaking year in 2005 when Jamaica recorded 1,671 homicides, placing the nation among the most violent in the world

 
We are not at that point in Toronto (despite the fact that many of the gang members are in fact from Jamaica).
 
This makes me laugh - using the same logic, Winnipeg should have had martial law declared sometime this summer with all the crap and abuse that was (and probably still is) going on.  When I was there this summer, there was a quadruple shooting in the street outside a bar 4 blocks from my apartment, two police involved shootings, some other gang shootings and knifings, and this fall a guy had his throat slashed at noontime, in broad daylight, in front of a gazillion people outside a mall (amongst other things).  I don't hear the mayor there asking for Soldiers.  With guns.  On their streets.

My bits of copper (no pun intended).

MM
 
I saw a Somali blow my next door neighbors head off at St Clair and Eglington. I much prefferred the Asian And Tamil Gang areas. The violence was much more business oriented with less posturing machismo looking to prove itself. Don't bother telling me how nice Toronto is if you've never lived elsewhere.
 
Nemo888 said:
I saw a Somali blow my next door neighbors head off at St Clair and Eglington. I much prefferred the Asian And Tamil Gang areas. The violence was much more business oriented with less posturing machismo looking to prove itself.

You sure about that?

Please let me in on those non posturing areas, so that I can let the "Asian and Tamils" from my area learn by their example....

dileas

tess
 
Nemo888 said:
Yes. I'm sure.

As I said, let me in on this valhalla of non posturing, I will invite the Asian and Tamil gangs to go there to learn a lesson on non posturing.

Especially at 3 am outside of my door when they are doing their rare strutting...

dileas

tess
 
Nemo888 said:
I saw a Somali blow my next door neighbors head off at St Clair and Eglington. I much prefferred the Asian And Tamil Gang areas. The violence was much more business oriented with less posturing machismo looking to prove itself.

For what it is worth, what threw me off was that St. Clair and Eglington are two major streets, that do not intersect.

So, were you a witness to the trial, considering you saw him do it?

Sorry if I am sounding a bit facetious, however, I find your tale hard to swallow.  You are stating facts, and I am just trying to understand it.

dileas

tess
 
Nemo888 said:
It is legal to do under Canadian law. If the Attourney General of a Province or the Minister of Emergency Preparedness(Stockwell Day)  thinks that there is a threat which cannot be handled by civillian authorities they can send in the CF for whatever they like.

Canada doesn't have an equivalent to the U.S. Posse Comitatus Act?
 
JasonSkald said:
Canada doesn't have an equivalent to the U.S. Posse Comitatus Act?

Obviously you haven't read this whole thread (all 4 pages).  Go to page 2.
 
Amazing.......

http://stevejanke.com/archives/248593.php

Liberal Giorgio Mammoliti wants to put soldiers in the streets. In our cities. With guns. In Canada.

Irony of ironies. After the brutal backlash against the Liberal Party in the 2006 election over the so-called military ad, which claimed the Conservatives had plans to turn Canada into a police state with soldier patrolling the streets, we have a politician today calling for soldiers to patrol the streets.

But if you happen to be a Conservative who attacked the Liberals over the ad in 2006, don't worry about having to eat crow. The politician who is asking that soldiers be allowed to take over, Toronto Councillor Giorgio Mammoliti, is a Liberal.

Remember the military ad? Of course you do. It was one of the most memorable moments in the 2006 federal election. The Liberal attack ad, released online but not aired on television, portrayed the Conservatives as some sort of pseudo-fascist group of thugs who would turn Canada into a police state if elected into office, and that the Canada's men and women in uniform would be only too happy to help make it happen:

    Stephen Harper actually announced he wants to increase military presence in our cities. Canadian cities. Soldiers with guns. In our cities. In Canada.

Guess what. A Canadian politician wants to suspend the rights of Canadians and put the army in charge. Were we too quick to condemn the Liberals? Were the Liberals right about Canada becoming a police state?

Well, given that the politician making the recommendation is, in fact, a Liberal, I think we can consider ourselves lucky that the Conservatives won.

Toronto Councillor Giorgio Mammoliti thinks the army ought to take over policing in areas that are suffering from drug violence. Giorgio Mammoliti is a member of the Liberal Party. He was once a member of the provincial NDP and served in Bob Rae's government, and served in cabinet as a parliamentary secretary. In 1997, though, Giorgio Mammoliti switched parties and became a Liberal. He is now a city councillor for Ward 7 York West.

Giorgio Mammoliti is a social conservative, but otherwise leans left, supporting Toronto Mayor David Miller, an NDP supporter, on such issues are tax and service fee increases.

Giorgio Mammolit also has strange ideas about law and order. Basically, he wants the order without the law:

    A Toronto councillor wants to bring in the army to curb the gun and gang violence plaguing his troubled north ward.

    Giorgio Mammoliti, who represents York West, admits the idea may be a little "out there," but he says he is desperate to find a solution. He says gang members in the area are as bad as terrorists.

    "I'm not talking about tanks, I'm not talking about armed guards on corners, I'm not talking about any of that," Mammoliti said of his plan on Thursday.

    "I'm talking about bringing the resources and the tools that the army has at their fingertips to be able to resolve the problem immediately, so the army is a good way to do that."

Besides armed infantry and mechanized units, I'm not sure what other resources Mammoliti thinks the army has that can apply in a situation like this. Does he want unarmed soldiers walking up and down the middle of the street? That wouldn't seem like the help he's looking for from the army, given that he is worried about the rampant violence in his ward:

    The councillor's controversial comments come a day after as many as 15 gunshots rang in the area during a morning shootout. Two people were involved in the gun battle near Sheppard and Keele Avenues, and police arrested 27-year-old Richardo Shackleford and charged him with attempted murder and numerous firearms offences.

    No one was hurt during the incident, but a nearby elementary school was locked down for a short time. Some city workers narrowly escaped injury when a bullet pierced their truck.

    Police say there are high levels of violence in the district, which has seen 14 murders so far this year.

So the army is going to do...what? Use high tech surveillance techniques? With or without warrants? Would an army officer be able to recognize a situation in which a warrant was required? Could he properly describe that situation to a judge?

And when the bad guys are spotted, the army is going to do...what? Kick in the doors and tell everyone to freeze? Or launch a grenade into the enemy's location from a secure position in order to complete the mission with minimum casualties to friendlies?

And if a unit comes under fire, the army is going to do...what? Get on the public address system and plead with the suspects to give up? Or get behind cover and call in an air strike on the location pinpointed by their satellite positioning equipment?

There is a reason we've split the force of the State into two branches -- the police and the military. Their missions are very different, and in particular, their reaction to specific situations is very different. And that difference is reflected in their training and their equipment. They aren't interchangeable.

A soldier has three priorities. In order, those priorities are:

  1. the mission
  2. his buddies
  3. civilians in the crossfire

It's brutal and harsh and it allows soldiers to survive in a wartime environment where there are no civil rights, indeed, no civil society.

Police operate within a civil society, and their application of violence is meant to preserve civil rights. Preserving civil rights is the mission. Crossfires are unacceptable.

An army unit chasing down drug suspects racing away in a car would feel justified doing untold damage to complete the mission and capture their targets.

By way of contrast, a police chase is often called off because of the danger to civilians on the road.

This is not a criticism of either the army or the police, but a recognition that they are very different breeds of soldiers, working from a very different set of fundamental premises.

Giorgio Mammoliti hasn't really thought this through, no more than the federal Liberal Party thought the implications of the military ad through back in 2006. When it comes to the military, not thinking things through seems to be a recurring problem for the Liberals.

Still, I find it ironic that we are hearing about putting soldiers in the streets. With guns. In our cities. In Canada. Thanks to a Liberal.

 
Wesley  Down Under said:
I think I'll watch Deathwish tonight :)
Or perhaps a little... Boondock Saints?
 
There we go. We don't need the army there, send the Saints back. Instant solution to their problem.
 
Hatchet Man said:
Well most of Boondock Saints was filmed in Toronto. >:D

Hm...along with Shoot'em  Up, anyone else see a trend here ?  ???
 
JesseWZ said:
There we go. We don't need the army there, send the Saints back. Instant solution to their problem.

Sure. White, Irish, Catholics shooting it out with Black, Jamacian, Rastas. You obviously don't remember, or even know about, Detroit or Watts in the late sixties ;)
 
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