AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)

[Navy_Pete]

I am, once again, going to give the new government, the new cabinet, the benefit of the doubt.

They have only been in office for two week; those two weeks have been dominated by "reading the (big, thick often very complex) briefing books" and what, I suspect, feels like being force fed information with a fire hose.

The PM has been away for a week or so, in Turkey and Manila, and, of course, Paris happened. But refugees dominate the agenda ... until climate change does.

In the midst of all that the Irving gang sent a letter ... the Irvings are important people and their various enterprises matter, too; one takes a pause when they raise a serious objection to something on the agenda.

It is my hope (and it is a valid COA in politics), and expectation, that cabinet will listen to all points of view, including, especially, those presented by their (newly met) senior officials. It seems to me that this deal, in so far as I understand it, is pretty good for the RCN, for Davie (of course) and for Canada ... maybe some good way(s) can be found to move forward and, if really necessary, alleviate Irving's concerns.

Hard to read between the lines here, but the contract award to Davie was murky at best, so I think it's prudent to pause and see what the previous government actually did, considering all the potential monies involved here between the challenges to the sole source contract, plus the inevitable excuses it will give for further delays in the ship building.

As well, with the two other tankers on loan from other countries, we're actually able to plan RASs on both coasts for the first time in years, so it's a lot less dire then it was two years ago

 

[Good2Golf]

So Irving has so much capacity that it can build AOPS, CSC and interim AOR?  ???

 

[NavyShooter]

Last ships for FELEX are in....and soon out....they need something to tide them over?

 

[Edward Campbell]

There is more information here on the Irving letter, specifically:

    "In the letter, dated Nov. 17 and obtained by iPolitics, Irving co-chief executive officer James (Jimmy) Irving asked Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan and Public Services and Procurement Minister Judy Foote to help delay approval of the
    deal until after the government allows a proposal by Irving and U.S.-based Maersk Line Ltd. to be “competitively evaluated.”

    “We understand that a contract for Davie Shipyard to provide the Interim Refuelling at Sea capability is awaiting approval by the new Government,” Irving writes. “I ask your support to request that the Irving-Maersk proposal be
    competitively evaluated before a contract is placed.”

    Also copied on the letter were Finance Minister Bill Morneau and Treasury Board President Scott Brison, who represents the Nova Scotia riding of Kings-Hants."

I'm still giving the new cabinet the benefit of the doubt. The letter does matter because the Irvings and their businesses matter, and the request deserves some consideration.

 

[Edward Campbell]

And here, on Canada News Wire is a statement from Kevin McCoy, President of Irving Shipbuilding Inc.

 

[ringo]

What ro/ro ship was irving proposing to rebuild as AOR.

 

[Edward Campbell]

There was a time, in the 1980s and '90s, when both politics (both Conservative (Mulroney) and Liberal (Pierre Trudeau and Chrétien)) and policy (the DMs of DND and Industry, for sure, and the Clerk, and Secretary of the Treasury Board too, I think) were united in deciding that Canada needed five (three "major" and two "minor") shipbuilding centres: the Pacific Coast (which, it was thought, could look after itself), the Great Lakes (small ships), Quebec (which meant Davie) and the Atlantic (which meant both Irving in Saint John and a yard in Halifax (small ships, again)). Both the CPF and Tribal (280) Class update projects were divided, by direction from either or both of the political and policy centres) between Quebec (Davie) and the Atlantic (Irving) and the MCDV contract went to Halifax Dartmouth Industries, now Halifax Shipyard Ltd but then owned by SNC Lavelin. The focus on the East reflected Canadian views throughout most of the 20th century: the real Canada stretched from Cape Breton to about the Great Lakes ... the rest was an agri-mining hinterland ... because the real world surrounded the Atlantic.

Now, Quebec separatism and the Pierre Trudeau-Mulroney-Chrétien reaction to it (throw more and more money at the problem) was a factor (and Davie, especially, got lazy as a result) but the view, both the political and the policy view, was that ship building was a 'good' industry. A well designed and managed national shipbuilding strategy could provide steady, well paid employment for many, many men of less than higher educational attainments: the people l,east able to thrive in a changing economy. Of course we never managed, after the 1950s, to have a large enough well designed and managed industrial strategy in much of any sector.

 

[Edward Campbell]

From a report in iPolitics:

    "Quebec ‘will simply not accept’ any changes to the plan to have Chantier Davie built a temporary supply ship for the Canadian navy, Premier Philippe Couillard says.

    Speaking to reporters Friday morning at the Canada2020 conference in Ottawa, Couillard addressed reports that broke Friday morning suggesting the new Liberal government wants to delay the decision on whether to approve
    a $750-million sole-sourced deal to have Davie retrofit a civilian tanker to serve as a supply ship until the joint support ships promised under the National Shipbuilding Procurement Strategy are built."

 

[jollyjacktar]

Even their industry peers feel Irving are being douchebags. (my paraphrasing)

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/shipbuilding-association-chastises-irving-over-davie-1.3331612

 

[MilEME09]

It really needs to go full speed ahead, having all the national shipyards moving towards one goal of rebuilding our navy can only benefit us. However I would chastise Irving more, if they aren't happy with all the billions they are already getting, maybe we should spank the spoiled brat so to speak.....

 

[CougarKing]

More on Jacktar's article, plus Irving's response: Squabbling among Canadian shipbuilders over the interim AOR contract.

CBC

Shipbuilding association calls Davie contract for navy supply ship 'fair'


$700M contract for a navy supply ship was to be finalized this month, but is now on hold


The industry group that represents Canada's shipbuilders has taken the extraordinary step of chastising a key Canadian shipyard for allegedly overstating its case in a growing spat over a government ship contract.


The Shipbuilding Association of Canada appeared Monday to rebuke Irving Shipbuilding Inc., saying it is surprised and disappointed over Irving's intervention in the government plan to have Chantier Davie build and operate an interim supply ship for Canada's navy.
The roughly $700-million contract with the Lévis, Que., shipbuilder has been finalized and was due for cabinet approval by the end of the month.

(...SNIPPED)

CBC

Irving Shipbuilding fires back at shipbuilding association criticism
Shipbuilding Association of Canada says Irving is trying to delay Davie contract

By Jennifer Henderson, CBC News Posted: Nov 23, 2015 6:37 PM AT Last Updated: Nov 23, 2015 6:41 PM AT


The association that represents some Canadian shipbuilders says it's "surprised and disappointed" Halifax's Irving Shipbuilding Inc. is urging the Trudeau government to stall a contract previously awarded to a Quebec shipyard.

Chantier Davie Canada Inc. of Lévis, Que., wants to convert a civilian cargo ship into a badly needed military supply vessel that would provide fuel, food and ammunition to Royal Canadian Navy ships at sea.

CBC News reported last week that Irving Shipbuilding had sent letters for four cabinet ministers asking the new Liberal government to delay final approval of the $700-million Davie contract. The deal had been awarded by the Harper government during the October federal election campaign.

(...SNIPPED)

 

[Lumber]

This is why we can't have nice things.

 

[jmt18325]

I support the deal, but this wasn't done right, it seems.  Cabinet rules were changed on the fly to make this fit.  To make matters worse, the government signed nothing but a letter of intent and left the real decision making until the post election period.  I don't blame this committee for doing their due diligence. 

 

[The Bread Guy]

I support the deal, but this wasn't done right, it seems.  Cabinet rules were changed on the fly to make this fit.

Funny you should mention this - the latest from the Info-machine - highlights mine....

The Government of Canada was recently briefed on the interim auxiliary oil replenishment file. We know that this process commenced as a result of an expression of interest by Chantier Davie Canada Inc. We also know that the previous government made a decision to proceed with this proposal through a sole-source rather than a competitive process. The previous government also modified the long-standing procurement rules governing contracts for interim defence requirements.

We have taken time to assess all these facts and have also taken the following into consideration:

• The process is at an advanced stage. If we restarted this initiative by launching a competition, we would lose precious time in providing the Navy with a critical refuelling and naval support capability.
• The ship has been purchased by Chantier Davie Canada Inc. and is in the yard undergoing conversion.
• According to public reports, several hundred employees have already been hired.
• Due to the structure of the agreement entered into by the previous government, we will be required to pay up to $89 million in expenses should we not proceed with this initiative.

After amassing the facts and carefully deliberating, The Government of Canada determined that proceeding with Project Resolve is the most viable course of action to provide the Navy’s at-sea oil replenishment capability until the Joint Support Ships, to be built by Seaspan’s Vancouver Shipyards, are operational.  The Government of Canada is committed to ensuring that competitions for major military procurements stand up to the highest standards of openness and transparency.

Furthermore, The Government of Canada will undertake a review of the process for sole-source contracts for military procurements, including looking at current regulations and policies and those regulations amended by the previous government.

 

[Bearpaw]

AOR project at Davie will go adhead----just announced on CBC.

Bearpaw

 

[Edward Campbell]

BZ to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's government.

 

[PuckChaser]

BZ to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's government.

Yep, managed to keep the project going and blame it on Harper.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Sole source is so evil because it brought us the C-17, C130J, Chinook and Leopard 2. Clearly not enough pork barrel in any of those projects.

 

[Old Sweat]

Sole source is so evil because it brought us the C-17, C130J, Chinook and Leopard 2. Clearly not enough pork barrel in any of those projects.

Not to mention the M777 and Excalibar.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Sole source is so evil because it brought us the C-17, C130J, Chinook and Leopard 2. Clearly not enough pork barrel in any of those projects.

Not one of those items were made in Canada.  They must be junk