AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)

[MilEME09]

That's because when it comes to defence policy our government is run by morons.

I would hope that it was Marc Garneau the Liberal Party Politician talking not Marc Garneau the former Naval Officer when he made this statement.

Transport Minister, and former navy officer, Marc Garneau said the federal government doesn’t need another supply ship.
”We cannot artificially create a need for something that doesn’t exist,”

Because if he made that statement as a Naval Officer he should be taken out of the House of Commons and shot with a ball of his own poop in front of the Naval Memorial.

In my opinion all the EX CF members in the house deserve the same treatment

 

[Rifleman62]

Transport Minister, and former navy officer, Marc Garneau said the federal government doesn’t need another supply ship.
”We cannot artificially create a need for something that doesn’t exist,”

Like fighter aircraft???

 

[Cloud Cover]

Transport Minister, and former navy officer, Marc Garneau said the federal government doesn’t need another supply ship.
”We cannot artificially create a need for something that doesn’t exist,”

I’m going to quote that in my income tax return.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Transport Minister, and former navy officer, Marc Garneau said the federal government doesn’t need another supply ship.
”We cannot artificially create a need for something that doesn’t exist,”

You guys: Lay off the poor sucker. He is just doing a classic politician trick, which is to tell only half the story, leaving an important portion unsaid. The full "real" quote would read:

”We cannot artificially create a need for something that doesn’t exist, [unsaid: unless it is politically expedient for us to get out of a badly thought promise or to get more votes in the maritime provinces]”

Personally, I would love to be there (and hope journalists remember at that time) when the government, which has already stated that at a recent ceremony in Halifax that it is "considering the possibility", announces that they will purchase a seventh AOPS that the Navy has never asked for, is not needed, and covers no gap whatsoever in military capability, for the sole reason that there is a gap in work at Irving's.

Meanwhile they will let an actual, existing, flagrant and enormous gap in naval capability go uncovered for six to eight years because they want to placate the imbecilic reasoning of civil servants who have bet their whole career on the National Shipbuilding [procurement: the word was dropped because as a "procurement" program it is a failure] Strategy, that granting construction outside the NSS would weaken it.

I ask all of you to note something: Whenever the Libs talk about the iAOR issue, they always indicate that the RCN has no need for more than three AORs. Now there is no doubt that the RCN has always indicated, since the retirement of PROVIDER, that three AORs is the number they consider to be required to be able to maintain the availability of one operational AOR on each coast at all time, and three was the original number of vessels to be procured under the original "JSS" acquisition program. However, as of right now, and until the iAOR comes on line in February, the current number of AOR in the RCN is zero. With the iAOR, it will go up to one. And unless another iAOR is leased, the number will remain at one until the first of the new PROTECTEUR class becomes operational, which is likely 5 to 7 years from now, at which point, there will be two, until the next AOR becomes operational about two years later. Since the iAOR is leased, it can then be returned - or acquired. But clearly, a second iAOR would reduce the deficit of AOR's in the meantime and help cover at least three years of a five year gap. And that is if all goes well and the PROTECTEUR construction begins at Seaspan when originally planned.

/RANT OFF 

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Ships, aircraft and tanks cost MONEY though.  Why can't people just be happy with new rank badges...what is wrong with all of you???????  We can't buy military equipment and provide free wifi on public transport!!

8)

 

[MilEME09]

I ask all of you to note something: Whenever the Libs talk about the iAOR issue, they always indicate that the RCN has no need for more than three AORs. Now there is no doubt that the RCN has always indicated, since the retirement of PROVIDER, that three AORs is the number they consider to be required to be able to maintain the availability of one operational AOR on each coast at all time, and three was the original number of vessels to be procured under the original "JSS" acquisition program. However, as of right now, and until the iAOR comes on line in February, the current number of AOR in the RCN is zero. With the iAOR, it will go up to one. And unless another iAOR is leased, the number will remain at one until the first of the new PROTECTEUR class becomes operational, which is likely 5 to 7 years from now, at which point, there will be two, until the next AOR becomes operational about two years later. Since the iAOR is leased, it can then be returned - or acquired. But clearly, a second iAOR would reduce the deficit of AOR's in the meantime and help cover at least three years of a five year gap. And that is if all goes well and the PROTECTEUR construction begins at Seaspan when originally planned.

/RANT OFF

You would think too, since it's a lease having a second one would be great, in 10 years when then Berlin's come into service we can just return them, or buy one or both, regardless it is a real capability gap but the government seems to only slightly care about their fake fighter gap.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Actually, OGBD, when we were briefed at sea by the folks from Ottawa about the planned replacement ships it was to be, 4 total.  2 each coast, by 2005.  Then 9/11 happened and everything went Pear shaped.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Don't get me wrong, jjt, as I have indicated before, the RCN has indicated to the various governments that its requirements are for four AOR (regardless of the statement of the Minister of transport to the contrary) since it finished the technical/operational evaluation of HMCS PROVIDER in 1965. They have also always indicated that their view is that three was a bare minimum.

We have not been at a bare minimum for a long time now.

 

[MTShaw]

I'd agree that we need a an ASTERIX and a Protecteur class in the Pacific where allies are few and far between. However, the battle groups we run with in Europe have plenty of AOR support.  The costs for diesel are the same.  Ideally I'd like one for each of the battle groups, but it doesn't matter in the the end whether who fills whom.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Why not fill any gap with the completion of the AOPS and the starting of the new frigates at Iriving by building some new replacements for the Kingston’s?  Maybe a third of them can be built there and the other two thirds at Davie or another yard?
The Kingston’s will be 25yrs on by this time.

 

[PuckChaser]

Why not fill any gap with the completion of the AOPS and the starting of the new frigates at Iriving by building some new replacements for the Kingston’s?  Maybe a third of them can be built there and the other two thirds at Davie or another yard?
The Kingston’s will be 25yrs on by this time.

Because PSPC will be involved and it'll take 15 years to start cutting steel on those Kingston replacements. It may line up with your timeline of getting ships built while we wait for Iriving with the CSCs, however...  ;D

 

[Stoker]

Why not fill any gap with the completion of the AOPS and the starting of the new frigates at Iriving by building some new replacements for the Kingston’s?  Maybe a third of them can be built there and the other two thirds at Davie or another yard?
The Kingston’s will be 25yrs on by this time.

The Kingston's will be around for at least another 10 years, they are all going though extensive refits over the next few years.

 

[Czech_pivo]

The Kingston's will be around for at least another 10 years, they are all going though extensive refits over the next few years.

Why is it that there’s no news on these refits? I’ve never been able to find a single article outlining what is occurring, when it’s occuring or who is going to be doing the work?

 

[Stoker]

Why is it that there’s no news on these refits? I’ve never been able to find a single article outlining what is occurring, when it’s occuring or who is going to be doing the work?

Why do you need an article, its being done as part of the 60M docking. Much of the work is being done through subcontractors through SNC Lavlin. I know exactly what is being done however this is not the forum to discuss that. Needless to say many of the ships systems and power generation is being overhauled.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Why do you need an article, its being done as part of the 60M docking. Much of the work is being done through subcontractors through SNC Lavlin. I know exactly what is being done however this is not the forum to discuss that. Needless to say many of the ships systems and power generation is being overhauled.

Cheers for the info, much appreciated.
I’m just trying to keep abreast of what’s occuring so that I can lean on my local MP and express my dissatisfaction when I believe it’s warranted. I’m not at all happy with the status of the speed or process of providing the men and women of the CAF with the tools that they need to keep Canada safe. It’s time for us to stand on our own two feet and pay our fair share and lift and bear our rightful burden - regardless of the cost. And whatever small role that I can play by being informed, more so than my MP if possible, and badger them for answers and bedevil them for action, I will gladly do so.

 

[Stoker]

Cheers for the info, much appreciated.
I’m just trying to keep abreast of what’s occuring so that I can lean on my local MP and express my dissatisfaction when I believe it’s warranted. I’m not at all happy with the status of the speed or process of providing the men and women of the CAF with the tools that they need to keep Canada safe. It’s time for us to stand on our own two feet and pay our fair share and lift and bear our rightful burden - regardless of the cost. And whatever small role that I can play by being informed, more so than my MP if possible, and badger them for answers and bedevil them for action, I will gladly do so.

The ships are in fine shape and could even go longer. They do yeoman's work for the RCN due to their low cost of operation and utility.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I'd agree that we need a an ASTERIX and a Protecteur class in the Pacific where allies are few and far between. However, the battle groups we run with in Europe have plenty of AOR support.  The costs for diesel are the same.  Ideally I'd like one for each of the battle groups, but it doesn't matter in the the end whether who fills whom.

We could buy a lot of international brownie points providing AOR's to various task forces and humanitarian incidents, all with minimal political risk. The upsides are so strong on a 2nd Resolve Class, I can't understand why this government is so blind to it.

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

We could buy a lot of international brownie points providing AOR's to various task forces and humanitarian incidents, all with minimal political risk. The upsides are so strong on a 2nd Resolve Class, I can't understand why this government is so blind to it.

....because Davie didn't donate nearly as much to the Federal Liberal Party as did Irving and Seaspan?

 

[Stoker]

Davie is good at promoting and is not giving up on the second tanker. I was approached a few days ago from someone doing some comms consulting for Federal Fleet and was offered a private tour of the ship in exchange for an interview and/or a Facebook live. I run one of the biggest Royal Canadian Navy face book pages. Obviously I am not going to do it given my day job.

 

[FSTO]

Davie is good at promoting and is not giving up on the second tanker. I was approached a few days ago from someone doing some comms consulting for Federal Fleet and was offered a private tour of the ship in exchange for an interview and/or a Facebook live. I run one of the biggest Royal Canadian Navy face book pages. Obviously I am not going to do it given my day job.

Are you "Royal Canadian Navy Fans"?