AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)

[Stoker]

Are you "Royal Canadian Navy Fans"?

No, that's a guy based in Victoria.

 

[FSTO]

No, that's a guy based in Victoria.

Got it.

That person doesn't like the Astrix idea at all.

 

[Stoker]

Got it.

That person doesn't like the Astrix idea at all.

Yes he tends to do that. I usually keep my opinions to myself on such matters and focus on the history of the RCN. I will try and correct blatantly wrong information though. Every time I post an article on Asterix I usually get quite a few from Quebec who is buying into what Asterix is, they don't want to hear what its isn't.

 

[jollyjacktar]

At the very least, Asterix has the best looking ship's crest I've seen in a long time.

 

[MARS]

At the very least, Asterix has the best looking ship's crest I've seen in a long time.

Agreed!

https://tridentnewspaper.com/new-unit-patch-nru-asterix/

 

[Colin Parkinson]

....because Davie didn't donate nearly as much to the Federal Liberal Party as did Irving and Seaspan?

Davie was out of the running as they were in bankruptcy at the time, it was the Conservatives that agreed to the Resolve Class go ahead.

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

Davie was out of the running as they were in bankruptcy at the time, it was the Conservatives that agreed to the Resolve Class go ahead.

But there out of bankruptcy protection now....so there's no reason why they couldn't provide them with additional contracts.

 

[Stoker]

But there out of bankruptcy protection now....so there's no reason why they couldn't provide them with additional contracts.

True and there should be no reason however their campaign of unsolicited bids probably pissed off the government. The government has already said that if Davie wants more work they can get it from non government sources.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Davie really oversold themselves and belittled the NSPS and made it harder for themselves. I think they misread the Liberals mindset.

 

[CBH99]

It's a tricky situation, and perhaps one that can be revisited with cooler heads if the NSPS gets a rethink.

Davie was in bankruptcy when many of the contracts were announced, and effectively shut itself out of the whole thing due to their financial & legal situation at the time.  However, they have come out of that and are now rated as one of the best shipbuilders in North America - something the Government of Canada should be happy to promote, and build to be even better as a point of national pride.

They also, while it was an unsolicited bid, were the first to deliver a new ship to the Navy/GoC despite it being the last contract signed.  Last ship ordered in the current batch, first one in the water & ready for trials.  On time, and on budget. 

Davie tried to show the government that they can be a reliable & innovative partner to providing these types of solutions for the government, and they proved it big time with this idea/plan/execution.  Pettiness aside, they seem to be doing a lot more to try and *earn* the work than Irving, which simply knows it'll be included no matter what.  :2c:

 

[Stoker]

It's a tricky situation, and perhaps one that can be revisited with cooler heads if the NSPS gets a rethink.

Davie was in bankruptcy when many of the contracts were announced, and effectively shut itself out of the whole thing due to their financial & legal situation at the time.  However, they have come out of that and are now rated as one of the best shipbuilders in North America - something the Government of Canada should be happy to promote, and build to be even better as a point of national pride.

They also, while it was an unsolicited bid, were the first to deliver a new ship to the Navy/GoC despite it being the last contract signed.  Last ship ordered in the current batch, first one in the water & ready for trials.  On time, and on budget. 

Davie tried to show the government that they can be a reliable & innovative partner to providing these types of solutions for the government, and they proved it big time with this idea/plan/execution.  Pettiness aside, they seem to be doing a lot more to try and *earn* the work than Irving, which simply knows it'll be included no matter what.  :2c:

That's the point they didn't qualify and the competition is over. Keep in mind that the build was not a build, it was a conversion and less moving parts than a build. A major part of the build (accommodations) was built overseas and brought over here. It was going to be on budget and time regardless of the cost. The literature that I read was the conversion was to be finished during the fall, I can tell you right now work is still going on the ship while alongside pier 21. I was also talking to a Davie employee a while ago and he said it was the most overtime he ever worked and basically it was 24/7 working on the ship and it was a no fail operation. This could of been accomplished by any foreign yard and we would of had new, not a 10 year old hull. Davie is now making claims that the Asterix is good for 40 years which I think is BS. Davie is also saying that the stern thruster is as good as a second shaft/dual engine JSS and the list goes on.
Don't get me wrong, I think its great that we have Asterix and the yard still did good but the campaign by Davie to have Asterix to appear more capable than JSS rubs me the wrong way. I wonder if Davie had the winning bid in the beginning would we be seeing the same delays as we're seeing now?

 

[dapaterson]

Right now Asterix is the most capable supply ship in the RCN.  Seaspan has yet to start cutting steel.  The NSS has failed; the Canadian shipbuilding industry remains mostly uncompetitive and reliant on overpriced government contracts.

Four Resolve class would be cheaper and provide more capability sooner than the pair of JSS NSS may deliver in the late 2020s.

Sent from my Moto E (4) using Tapatalk

 

[Stoker]

Right now Asterix is the most capable supply ship in the RCN.  Seaspan has yet to start cutting steel.  The NSS has failed; the Canadian shipbuilding industry remains mostly uncompetitive and reliant on overpriced government contracts.

Four Resolve class would be cheaper and provide more capability sooner than the pair of JSS NSS may deliver in the late 2020s.

Sent from my Moto E (4) using Tapatalk

Of course it is and honestly better to build off shore. I wish the government would authorize a another until the JSS is built.  Not four.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Right now Asterix is the most capable supply ship in the RCN.  Seaspan has yet to start cutting steel.  The NSS has failed; the Canadian shipbuilding industry remains mostly uncompetitive and reliant on overpriced government contracts.

Four Resolve class would be cheaper and provide more capability sooner than the pair of JSS NSS may deliver in the late 2020s.

Sent from my Moto E (4) using Tapatalk

No, they wouldn't.  As was pointed out earlier in this thread by OGBD (IIRC), they cannot supply munitions as will be done with the JSS.  There is also no RO/RO as well with Asterix.  She is just a tanker in that regard.  Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to see her but she's not the total package we need.

 

[Stoker]

No, they wouldn't.  As was pointed out earlier in this thread by OGBD (IIRC), they cannot supply munitions as will be done with the JSS.  There is also no RO/RO as well with Asterix.  She is just a tanker in that regard.  Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to see her but she's not the total package we need.

Not to mention degausing gear, NBC Citadel, dual shafts, the list goes on. Asterix is good for the basics, disaster relief etc and I think should be retained after the lease is over it its usefulness for the RCN is significant.

 

[FSTO]

Not to mention degausing gear, NBC Citadel, dual shafts, the list goes on. Asterix is good for the basics, disaster relief etc and I think should be retained after the lease is over it its usefulness for the RCN is significant.

It (and its sister  ;D) is perfectly suited to many of the missions we currently conduct.

In my perfect world we would have a mix of PRO/ASTRIX class coupled with a couple of flat deck helicopter carriers. This is the "More Canada" that the world really needs.

 

[Stoker]

It (and its sister  ;D) is perfectly suited to many of the missions we currently conduct.

In my perfect world we would have a mix of PRO/ASTRIX class coupled with a couple of flat deck helicopter carriers. This is the "More Canada" that the world really needs.

Completely agree, Asterix and sisters for more routine missions, low threat areas and the JSS for higher threat areas.

 

[YZT580]

Completely agree, Asterix and sisters for more routine missions, low threat areas and the JSS for higher threat areas.

Unfortunately, you don't always get to chose which area is going to be low threat when you first start out.  The requirement is for 4 JSS class ships. By all means use the Asterix for humanitarian aid: great way to support without utilising front line assets but don't give any support to the idea of obtaining Asterix in lieu of.  Three JSS should be the absolute minimum with a Mistral type command ship on each coast and the Asterix as a merchant supply class only.  My 2 cents

 

[Stoker]

Unfortunately, you don't always get to chose which area is going to be low threat when you first start out.  The requirement is for 4 JSS class ships. By all means use the Asterix for humanitarian aid: great way to support without utilising front line assets but don't give any support to the idea of obtaining Asterix in lieu of.  Three JSS should be the absolute minimum with a Mistral type command ship on each coast and the Asterix as a merchant supply class only.  My 2 cents

Yes that's true but nevertheless we have Asterix that will indeed be used in low threat areas as they are not equipped to be used anywhere else. That being said 2 Asterix with some defensive upgrades and with military crew can be used anywhere.

 

[FSTO]

Unfortunately, you don't always get to chose which area is going to be low threat when you first start out.  The requirement is for 4 JSS class ships. By all means use the Asterix for humanitarian aid: great way to support without utilising front line assets but don't give any support to the idea of obtaining Asterix in lieu of.  Three JSS should be the absolute minimum with a Mistral type command ship on each coast and the Asterix as a merchant supply class only.  My 2 cents

Don't think that for a second that a less than capable platforms will be sent into high threat areas if the government says we are going there.
Iltis going to the Balkans and Afghanistan for example.