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AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)

Baz said:
The logic stated makes sense, keep it in the ensign as the Air Dets embark but not in the badge as they are not organic to the RCN.  I am curious as to whether it was part of the pre-unification RCN badge... I goggled but couldn't find the answer?

The pre-unification RCN badge did not include a bird.  See https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=e8lM2wqu&id=13954C196613763A10E3C65A0388B8C279299F04&thid=OIP.e8lM2wqudPgXaO_O4UQe9wHaJ6&q=RCN+Badge&simid=608016007955481665&selectedIndex=0&ajaxhist=0
 
Concur. The Eagle over Anchor motif came into existence for the MARCOM badge after unification. Never existed before in the old RCN.

However, to my mind, it's retention on the ensign has more to do with thrift and administrative simplicity than any conscious decision to retain the eagle as a symbol of embarked air detachments. By retaining the full MARCOM symbol, the RCN thirst for a distinctive ensign that would connect it back to its British root (white ensign) while remaining clearly Canadian was satisfied without the need to scrap old flags and acquire a full new set, not to mention it was administratively a lot easier: On D-day, everybody simply switched the flags between the jackstaff and flagstaff. That way, no coordination of deliveries of a completely new flag, with potential delays and shortages occurred.

Besides, from a heraldry point of view, this use of the old jack as ensign made sense: It's colour and pattern (white with a national flag in the upper corner) put it clearly in the "white ensigns" family - thus re-connecting to our British root - while the Canadian flag in the upper corner makes it clearly Canadian, and the retention of the Marcom symbol in the fly recognizes all those (such as I, for instance) who have only ever served at sea in MARCOM under the unified forces.

The new RCN badge is merely a "modern" interpretation of the old RCN badge (with the exception of the stupidity of translating the Navy motto "Ready Aye Ready" into latin, which is the most backwards things I have seen in a long time). 
 
We have to be everything to everyone and offend or leave out nobody it seems to be more and more these days.  You can add the changes made to "Canadian-ize" the Victoria Cross as well.  PC stupidity to my mind.
 
We have to be everything to everyone and offend or leave out nobody it seems to be more and more these days.

Off topic.

The quote below appeared on an unofficial Trey Gowdy Facebook community page.

Summary of eRumor: Congressman Trey Gowdy (R-SC) said “nobody has the right to serve in the military” in defense of the transgender military ban announced by President Trump in July 2017.

The Truth: Comments about transgender people serving in the military were incorrectly attributed to Trey Gowdy after President Trump announced a ban on transgender service members in July 2017.

If you have ever seen Congressman Gowdy (a former Federal Prosecutor), it sure sounds like something he would say. What was posted:

Nobody has a “right” to serve in the Military. Nobody.

What makes people think the Military is an equal opportunity employer? Very far from it.

The Military uses prejudice regularly and consistently to deny citizens from joining for being too old or too young, too fat or too skinny, too tall or too short.

Citizens are denied for having flat feet, or for missing or additional fingers. Poor eyesight will disqualify you, as well as bad teeth. Malnourished? Drug addiction? Bad back? Criminal history? Low IQ? Anxiety? Phobias? Hearing damage? Six arms? Hear voices in your head? Self-identify as a Unicorn?

Need a special access ramp for your wheelchair? Can’t run the required course in the required time? Can’t do the required number of pushups?

Not really a “morning person” and refuse to get out of bed before noon?

All can be reasons for denial.

The Military has one job. War. Anything else is a distraction and a liability.

Did someone just scream “That isn’t Fair”? War is VERY unfair, there are no exceptions made for being special or challenged or socially wonderful.

YOU change yourself to meet Military standards. Not the other way around.

I say again: You don’t change the Military… you must change yourself.

The Military doesn’t need to accommodate anyone with special issues. The Military needs to Win Wars.

If any of your personal issues are a liability that detract from readiness or lethality… Thank you for applying and good luck in future endeavors. Who’s next in line?
 
^^

Could you imagine one of our lawmakers saying that? Or the CDS?
 
Rifleman62 said:
Off topic.

The quote below appeared on an unofficial Trey Gowdy Facebook community page.

Summary of eRumor: Congressman Trey Gowdy (R-SC) said “nobody has the right to serve in the military” in defense of the transgender military ban announced by President Trump in July 2017.

The Truth: Comments about transgender people serving in the military were incorrectly attributed to Trey Gowdy after President Trump announced a ban on transgender service members in July 2017.

If you have ever seen Congressman Gowdy (a former Federal Prosecutor), it sure sounds like something he would say. What was posted:

The thing is, everything he mentions as examples are physical or mental impairments that truly would limit one's ability to engage in warfare.  What he has failed to do is demonstrate how being transgendered prevents someone from doing any of those things.

PS:  I have been accommodated for not being a morning person for over 35 years now...
 
Pusser said:
The thing is, everything he mentions as examples are physical or mental impairments that truly would limit one's ability to engage in warfare.  What he has failed to do is demonstrate how being transgendered prevents someone from doing any of those things.

PS:  I have been accommodated for not being a morning person for over 35 years now...

Unless l missed it somewhere in Rifleman's quote, he didn't mention transgender that l could read.  Otherwise, l agree with his points as quoted.
 
He didn't demonstrate that having flat feet would impair, he simply stated it.  The point being made is that the military should be the arbitrator in deciding whether a particular trait (even having green eyes) will in some manner impede the successful pursuit of victory in war.  If that is the case, then those individuals with green eyes should be eliminated from the selection.  If it is determined that a candidate needs to be able to carry 50 kilos 20 km through a swamp, and a candidate cannot reach that standard, then that candidate needs to be disqualified.  In war, being politically correct could mean being the one who is hauling their flag down.  The only issue is, is the transgender thing harmful to the successful execution of war?  The same question should be asked about green eyes, flat feet, and the ability to carry the aforementioned 50 kilos.  That isn't sexist, racist, or any other ist it is simply ensuring that as much as selection determines a wars outcome that we have the best folks in position.  There isn't a second place finish in war.
 
YZT580 said:
He didn't demonstrate that having flat feet would impair, he simply stated it.  The point being made is that the military should be the arbitrator in deciding whether a particular trait (even having green eyes) will in some manner impede the successful pursuit of victory in war.  If that is the case, then those individuals with green eyes should be eliminated from the selection.  If it is determined that a candidate needs to be able to carry 50 kilos 20 km through a swamp, and a candidate cannot reach that standard, then that candidate needs to be disqualified.  In war, being politically correct could mean being the one who is hauling their flag down.  The only issue is, is the transgender thing harmful to the successful execution of war?  The same question should be asked about green eyes, flat feet, and the ability to carry the aforementioned 50 kilos.  That isn't sexist, racist, or any other ist it is simply ensuring that as much as selection determines a wars outcome that we have the best folks in position.  There isn't a second place finish in war.

Actually there is a second place finish in a war - it’s called the vanquished....
 
Meanwhile back at the ranch they are practicing dry RAS at the jetty and apparently going out this week to do more practices at sea.
 
Asterix lost power while in harbor last week.

Naval supply ship lost power in Halifax Harbour ahead of storm

TOM AYERS The Chronicle Herald
Published January 10, 2018 - 1:45pm
Last Updated January 10, 2018 - 3:17pm

A new naval supply ship lost power in Halifax Harbour last week just ahead of a winter storm that packed nearly 80 kilometre-per-hour winds at the dockyard and gusts that exceeded 100 km/h elsewhere in the province.

The MV Asterix, a large former commercial container ship that has been converted into an interim auxiliary naval replenishment vessel, arrived in Halifax late last month and will be leased to the Royal Canadian Navy once it passes sea trials.

With the storm coming and the Asterix tied up at the pier next to the Halifax Seaport Farmers’ Market, the harbour authority asked the ship’s owners to move its berth up the harbour, said Spencer Fraser, CEO of Federal Fleet Services, the company that refurbished the vessel.

The ship was accompanied by tugboats, as usual, he said, and after the power went out, an extra tug was called in just as a precaution.

“The reason we moved berths was I guess it was too exposed and they don’t want to suffer damage to the jetty with the ship knocking in, so the ship was in fact moved before the storm approached,” Fraser told The Herald.

“There was a power blackout ... a sensor on the lube-oil system failed on the power generation, but the emergency power generation kicked in as required, and the extra tug was kept there just because of the pending storm and sorting out the sensor problem, which has been solved.

“We did that and we’ve subsequently done more harbour moves in the harbour. We’re now tied up at the navy dockyard at jetty November Bravo.

“So all systems worked. There was a failure of a sensor and then the backup systems worked as engineered. There was no damage to the ship, no storm damage, no cost to us other than standard repair.”

Fraser declined to discuss financial issues, but said there was no extra cost because the large ship always requires tugboats to manoeuvre around the harbour.

“It’s a new ship and it’s new to the Halifax Port Authority so everyone’s being extra cautious and professionalism came through,” he said.

Ken Hansen, a retired navy commander and defence consultant, said finding a faulty sensor is a common aspect of sea trials before a ship goes into service.

And lubricating oil is a critical component of a ship’s mechanical operations, so running drills related to the lube-oil would be expected, he said.

“Lube-oil failures are a very common thing to practise and the engineering staff have to take action so that they can determine whether or not it’s a faulty sensor or quickly shut down,” Hansen said.

“Lubricating oil is vital. It’s one of those real, honest-to-God emergencies that happen in a ship, because if the engine or the transmission runs dry, you can very quickly end up with a catastrophic failure.”

However, he said, the incident with the Asterix sounds like it was fixed right away and was not serious.

“It’s like cars,” Hansen said. “Cars are the same. In fact, I’ve got a faulty engine light in my car right now, and I know it’s a sensor, because all the other indications — running temperature, fuel efficiency, power response, all that stuff — is normal, so we don’t pay any attention.”

As an auxiliary naval replenishment vessel, the Asterix will provide the navy with fuel, cargo, ammunition, a floating hospital, a platform for two helicopters and quarters for humanitarian and rescue operations.

It will be leased to the federal government for five years at a cost of about $700 million, with an option to renew for an additional five years, while another firm builds new replacement ships for the navy.

The Asterix is currently crewed with a mix of 36 civilian and 114 Canadian Forces personnel and is set to run through sea trials this month.

Fraser said he expects the navy will put the ship into service in February.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/metro/1535527-naval-supply-ship-lost-power-in-halifax-harbour-ahead-of-storm
 
Uh-oh. Now we will have the PM saying "it doesn't work" that why we will never do a like procurement.
 
26910694_1971440019739974_249202543020574699_o.jpg
 
As an auxiliary naval replenishment vessel, the Asterix will provide the navy with fuel, cargo, ammunition, a floating hospital, a platform for two helicopters and quarters for humanitarian and rescue operations.

I thought there was no ammo capacity?
 
Colin P said:
I believe the magazine is in the square structure on the bow.

Davie appears to concur

http://www.davie.ca/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/DEFSEC-FOR-WEB.pdf

Slide 13 -  Slides 12 and 14 are also interesting wrt capabilities.

PS - WRT Helo certification: How does the civvy world certify helidecks on oil rigs, OSVs, Cruise Liners and Coast Guard vessels?  I believe Asterix falls into that operational category.
 
Naval-Technology.today says 300 tones of ammo, and there are various drawings on the net illustrating ammunition storage just forward and beneath of the forward cargo crane.
Pretty vague.
I would assume they have some way to move and then sling it for Vertrep.
 
From this side view on Flikr, it looks like just forward of the fore fueling mast, there are two apparent king posts for heavy jackstays, so that's one way to transfer ammo, dry cargo and cold/frozen stores.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/rcn-mrc/38471794715

Secondly, there is covered deck, called the "tweendeck" that runs like a highway from the front of the ship all the way to the back where it has access to the hangar through an elevator for cargo. This tweendeck accesses all the various stores and cargo holds, like a highway, so vertrep for ammo/dry cargo and frozen/cold stores is another possibility.
 
Chris Pook said:
PS - WRT Helo certification: How does the civvy world certify helidecks on oil rigs, OSVs, Cruise Liners and Coast Guard vessels?  I believe Asterix falls into that operational category.

Chris, when (notice I didn't say "if") Asterix flies helicopters, they will be military ones, deployed with an air det. That means military certification - period.
 
I'm really annoyed that the federal government isn't taking federal fleet and Davie seriously. They seem to forgot the importance of merchant marine during WWII We could have 8 Davie built AORs for the price of two JSSs. I've always thought Davie and Irving should churn out their own classes of warships while us crunchy organic people should focus of CG and Arctic supply ships.
 
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