Armed Forces Consider incentives to keep soldiers fit

[daftandbarmy]

Interesting.  I know this possibility is making some of my fellow sailors panic a little bit...

Really? Then I guess it's working

 

[Harris]

Glad it's a Reg force thing.  [  Merit points mean nothing to a reservist.  The bag would be nice though.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Glad it's a Reg force thing.  [  Merit points mean nothing to a reservist.  The bag would be nice though.

Both Air and Naval Reservists are scored both locally and nationally with merit points counting towards promotion.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

So if the guy with a larger waste fails him for that portion but would have scored Gold because despite his size he killed the test will get no points while the guy with a passable waste gets points but only got bronze is a thing?

 

[McG]

That is how the chart works.
However, I have heard that the system will be trialed for a year with only the material rewards before a decision is made on promotion board points.

 

[dapaterson]

There is a new CANFORGEN out soon (if not now) with some details.  As of 01 Apr 2016, PSP will supervise all tests for the Reg F; they take on the Res F as well as of 01 Apr 2017.

 

[armyvern]

Money talks. Decent yearly bonus pay for people maintaining consistent strong physical performance.

Can't see that flying too far as it distinctly disadvantages the technical trades where pers may be fit and surpass the minimum, but will never be at the higher levels of those for whom the gym is a second home during duty hours.  We get our 5 days a week there, but that's at an hour maximum.  Many trades spend many more working hours at the gym than that. If we did same, you'd have nothing to do your jobs with.

Monetary incentives are always good ... as long as you can find the guy who's going to come in and do our tech jobs getting the kit procured, getting the bills paid, keeping the lights on, ordering and dealing with your ammo requirements etc etc while we hit the gym at the same frequency too.

 

[MJP]

There is a new CANFORGEN out soon (if not now) with some details.  As of 01 Apr 2016, PSP will supervise all tests for the Reg F; they take on the Res F as well as of 01 Apr 2017.

Well Fuck.  It was nice for a while to not be beholden to their level of uselessness.

 

[PuckChaser]

Well frig.  It was nice for a while to not be beholden to their level of uselessness.

They were losing a grip on the empire, had to firm it back up.

I had a friend (who is a BFTA) told he wasn't allowed to show another military member how to lift weights safely, and work together on a fitness program because it was considered "personal training", and only PSP could do that.

 

[CombatMacguyver]

Can't see that flying too far as it distinctly disadvantages the technical trades where pers may be fit and surpass the minimum, but will never be at the higher levels of those for whom the gym is a second home during duty hours.  We get our 5 days a week there, but that's at an hour maximum.  Many trades spend many more working hours at the gym than that. If we did same, you'd have nothing to do your jobs with.

Monetary incentives are always good ... as long as you can find the guy who's going to come in and do our tech jobs getting the kit procured, getting the bills paid, keeping the lights on, ordering and dealing with your ammo requirements etc etc while we hit the gym at the same frequency too.

THIS!  I loved STARTING my daily workout at 16:15 whilst all the gunners had FINISHED around 13:00 and were long gone.  Their days were (and are) significantly shorter than mine.

 

[Staff Weenie]

I would absolutely love to see how PSP will ensure they cover all of the Reserve units across Canada. I'm in Ottawa, and it's bad enough - we can't get them out on a Saturday to run a FORCE eval for the unit.

We have a couple of Class A members who are trained to run the FORCE eval, but only for potential Recruits, not serving unit members.

Antoher useless Empire is being built by folks that I can replace with a Class A.....

 

[CBH99]

Legitimate question - how are they qualified to run a FORCE test for potential new recruits, but not already sworn members?

 

[Lumber]

So can you pass all the stations but fail on waist size ?

I sat through one of the presentation with PSP and there were a lot of questions asked.

The standard for "Pass/Fail" is still the same. You cannot fail your FORCE test by having a waste that is too big.

The whole thing is know as the "FORCE Fitness Profile", and it has two components, making up the x and y axis of a graph.

On the Y axis is your Operational Fitness. They could not tell us how the scores are calculated, but each one of the tests is scored out of 100, and your score is also determine by your age group (so a 26 year old getting 35seconds on the rushes will have a different score than a 40 year old with the exact same time). The higher your overall score, the higher on the y-axis you get. As of TODAY, they have determined what the scores for Platinum, Gold, Silver, and Bronze will be. HOWEVER, their intention is that only 50% of the Forces will get Bronze or higher, everyone else will be below that level. SO, if after year one of this system, 65% of the Forces gets Bronze or higher, they will increase the minimum score for Bronze. They will continue to do this each year, and the expectation is that be year 3, roughly half the Forces will get Bronze or higher, and half will not. This does not mean that those below Bronze have "failed", they have simply not achieved any of the incentive levels, and thus get no merit points (or T-Shirts...).

On the X axis is your Health Related Fitness. This is where the waist circumference comes in. They didn't elaborate much on this. I don't know how it's scored, or if they factor anything else like age, height, weight, body type, etc. All I know is that it basically devides the entire graph into three parts. Half the graph is "Low Health-Realted Fitness", one quarter is "Medium Health-Related Fitness", and the far right 25% is "high-health related fitness". The only one that actualyl matters is the Low section, because if you fall in the low section, you aren't elligble for the incentive levels, no matter how well you actually perform on the FORCE test.

Oh by the way, here's a picture!

EDIT: I found the dfit website has a much better graph...

https://dfit-fgc.kinductdev.com/forceprofile

 

[Lumber]

Legitimate question - how are they qualified to run a FORCE test for potential new recruits, but not already sworn members?

Legitimate answer:

For new recruits, the only requirement is that they pass the FORCE test.

For others in the forces (LS/Lt(N) and above), there are merit points at stake. Ergo, they want unbiased, qualified people supervising the test.

FORCE evaluators will still be on hand to help administer the test, but they will be overseen by PSP.

Did I mention they are also going to be using tablets to keep track of scores?

 

[dapaterson]

If the CoC can not be trusted to run fitness tests then the institution failed in selecting them as leaders.

 

[Lumber]

If the CoC can not be trusted to run fitness tests then the institution failed in selecting them as leaders.

You don't think there a few people out there who would write down a score 2 seconds less than the actual score knowing it would give their buddy who just did the sand bag drag an extra merit point on his PER?

 

[MJP]

You don't think there a few people out there who wouldn't write down a score 2 seconds less than the actual score knowing it would give their buddy who just did the sand bag drag an extra merit point on his PER?

My PER counts for a bunch of merit points and I trust my CoC to do it properly, same standard should be for PT test.  PSP is a friction point not an enabler.

 

[dapaterson]

Again, a leadership issue,  not solved with overpaid gym rats.  If the CoC can write PERs, which have a much greater career impact, why can't they evaluate fitness as well?

 

[Harris]

I would absolutely love to see how PSP will ensure they cover all of the Reserve units across Canada. I'm in Ottawa, and it's bad enough - we can't get them out on a Saturday to run a FORCE eval for the unit.

We have a couple of Class A members who are trained to run the FORCE eval, but only for potential Recruits, not serving unit members.

Antoher useless Empire is being built by folks that I can replace with a Class A.....

Interesting.  I wonder who ordered that?  I just did mine today with my Unit Qual guy (one of three).  They do everyone in the Unit and for many other pers on Camp as well.  No PSP in sight.

 

[Harris]

You don't think there a few people out there who would write down a score 2 seconds less than the actual score knowing it would give their buddy who just did the sand bag drag an extra merit point on his PER?

And PSP is exempt from this?  Oh I get it, they have no friends.  [Xp