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I don't make the policy. I'm speaking of BMQ types and PATs here.
Armoured Reconnaissance (Reserves)
- Thread starter Rob
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Thanks for the helpful replies everyone.
I got a question about the structure of Armoured Reconnaissance units. As I understand it, Infantry units are organized into Sections with eight soldiers (commanded by a Sgt, MCpl 2i/c, and 6 Pte/Cpl). A grouping of three Sections under the command of an officer is a Platoon, and two or more Platoons make up a Company. How are armoured recce units organized? From what I understand, instead of Sections, armoured recce units are comprised of Troops. How are Troops structured in terms of number of soldiers and roles? What comprises a Squadron?
If someone could explain or provide a link that explains the structure (as Michael Dorosh's site does for the Infantry) I would appreciate it.
Thanks
I got a question about the structure of Armoured Reconnaissance units. As I understand it, Infantry units are organized into Sections with eight soldiers (commanded by a Sgt, MCpl 2i/c, and 6 Pte/Cpl). A grouping of three Sections under the command of an officer is a Platoon, and two or more Platoons make up a Company. How are armoured recce units organized? From what I understand, instead of Sections, armoured recce units are comprised of Troops. How are Troops structured in terms of number of soldiers and roles? What comprises a Squadron?
If someone could explain or provide a link that explains the structure (as Michael Dorosh's site does for the Infantry) I would appreciate it.
Thanks
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In mud recce, ie. jeeps, we are organized as:
41 = Troop Leader = Lt (normally), Driver, Observer (normally MCpl)
41A = Tp WO = WO, Dvr, Obvr
41B = MCpl (or senior Cpl), Dvr, Obv
41C = Sgt (or senior MCpl), Dvr, Obv
41D = MCpl (or senior Cpl), Dvr, Obv
41E = Sgt (or senior MCpl), Dvr, Obv
41F = MCpl (or senior Cpl), Dvr, Obv
Total of 21 pers
Disclaimer/ Caveat:
Ranks/ Crew positions, are solely based on whatever the Corps decides is effective at the time, courses available, whenever and wherever they decide to grant us the time and place to conduct the qualifying courses. Also, whether senior Cpl's that have been CC'ing for a couple of years are really qualified, anymore, to move a jeep tactically, without a course, sanction and blessing from CTC. Even though we've let them do it (for years) and develop their skills and place them in positions of authority. We've had to do it due to lack of courses, lack of spots on courses, the mother hen attitude of the school by not letting is do it locally, for the simplest of courses.
Don't ask about armament, we don't know. Maybe C6 & C9, but no ammo to train. Don't ask about vehicles, right now we're still using Iltis, might get replaced with the G-Wagon by 2006, maybe. When we get them I'll believe it, but still expect them to be taken away by Meaford. Possibly by an oversea's Op ( a perfectly good reason, given the shortage of equipment in the CF). Besides the ones we've been promised aren't the right ones for our role ( that's been covered in another thread, don't bring it here).
The above ORBAT is true as of this writing, at least in my Regt. It could change by tomorrow to an eight car Troop with the Tp Ldr gaining an extra C\S. May be a Sgt or a MCpl as CC. Good idea, makes him a complete patrol. Check to see the way the wind is blowing that day (or the thread on this subject).
The rest of your answers regarding the Armoured Reserve Recce can be found on other threads in the Armoured Forum.
41 = Troop Leader = Lt (normally), Driver, Observer (normally MCpl)
41A = Tp WO = WO, Dvr, Obvr
41B = MCpl (or senior Cpl), Dvr, Obv
41C = Sgt (or senior MCpl), Dvr, Obv
41D = MCpl (or senior Cpl), Dvr, Obv
41E = Sgt (or senior MCpl), Dvr, Obv
41F = MCpl (or senior Cpl), Dvr, Obv
Total of 21 pers
Disclaimer/ Caveat:
Ranks/ Crew positions, are solely based on whatever the Corps decides is effective at the time, courses available, whenever and wherever they decide to grant us the time and place to conduct the qualifying courses. Also, whether senior Cpl's that have been CC'ing for a couple of years are really qualified, anymore, to move a jeep tactically, without a course, sanction and blessing from CTC. Even though we've let them do it (for years) and develop their skills and place them in positions of authority. We've had to do it due to lack of courses, lack of spots on courses, the mother hen attitude of the school by not letting is do it locally, for the simplest of courses.
Don't ask about armament, we don't know. Maybe C6 & C9, but no ammo to train. Don't ask about vehicles, right now we're still using Iltis, might get replaced with the G-Wagon by 2006, maybe. When we get them I'll believe it, but still expect them to be taken away by Meaford. Possibly by an oversea's Op ( a perfectly good reason, given the shortage of equipment in the CF). Besides the ones we've been promised aren't the right ones for our role ( that's been covered in another thread, don't bring it here).
The above ORBAT is true as of this writing, at least in my Regt. It could change by tomorrow to an eight car Troop with the Tp Ldr gaining an extra C\S. May be a Sgt or a MCpl as CC. Good idea, makes him a complete patrol. Check to see the way the wind is blowing that day (or the thread on this subject).
The rest of your answers regarding the Armoured Reserve Recce can be found on other threads in the Armoured Forum.
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Perry said:
I know that there's been talk about it in my unit, but first we need to get the vehicles to do it. Right now we're running 5 car troops with a mix of Iltiis and MILCOTS. We managed to acquire a bunch of Iltis from the MPs when they upgraded to the MILCOTS. Barely used, but still worn. I was a troop leader's driver in Gagetown last year for the Armoured Recce Troop Leader's course in Gagetown. We did that with a mix of Iltis and Cougars. The platform doesn't matter. Recce can be done on any. You just have to stay aware of your surroundings. Yes, in Iltis you had better peripheral vision, but the fundementals are still the same.
I drove the cougar in a recce role right before the transition and as a driver I was still able to pick out things before the CC.
The current talk in our unit is that the CC will be in the front passenger seat with a gunner/observer/vehicle 2IC in the turret. The discussion is that the gunner/observer/vehicle 2IC should be almost as highly trained as the CC him/herself because they would be the one passing on the handsignals and such to the rear callsign. I know that the C&R G-Wagon has a turret up top, but the current doctrine the last time I looked at it was that only the Troop Leader got that vehicle. In that case, yes, the Troop Leader would probably be in the turret. If all the other vehicles were C&R it might make more sense for the CC to be in the turret, but in this day and age where we don't have the money to do such things, we adapt and overcome.
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It is, but as they say, it is an iterim vehicle (like the ILTIS, hmm) and isn't supposed to be deployed overseas (like the ILTIS and Cougar, hmm I see a pattern).
For training purposes it doesn't really matter. Our unit's even purchased magnetic orange strobes to put on the top so we don't get hit on civvie roads. It all comes down to availability and safety. Tactics dictate that we should be on the inner edge of a blind corner, but reality in training dictates that we don't want to get hit head on by a civvie. Tactics dictate that we should clear all laterals, but reality dictates that we don't go down people's private driveways. If we did, I'm sure that the local members of parliament would be getting some nasty phonecalls, as well as our OR.
For training purposes it doesn't really matter. Our unit's even purchased magnetic orange strobes to put on the top so we don't get hit on civvie roads. It all comes down to availability and safety. Tactics dictate that we should be on the inner edge of a blind corner, but reality in training dictates that we don't want to get hit head on by a civvie. Tactics dictate that we should clear all laterals, but reality dictates that we don't go down people's private driveways. If we did, I'm sure that the local members of parliament would be getting some nasty phonecalls, as well as our OR.
George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
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You are right. It doesn't matter what vehicle we use to train. The problem lies in the lessons we learn. Sometimes we learn the wrong lessons by using the wrong type of vehicle to do our training.
GW
GW
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Amen George, like the stupid ATV Trial being doen by the OntR's We Just did OP's this week end with a patrol of 7 ATV'S pulling into the Op Base was liek trying to park 2 troops instead of moving 2 vehicles into position nice and quick. This trial has been a big waste of money and resourse and sucked the soul out of the regiment.
George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
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TR said:
On this note.....what has happened to our ATV Trials thread?
GW
