Army Communication & Information Systems Specialists (Sig Op, Lineman and LCIS Amalgamation)

[buzgo]

I will be shocked if the spec pay issue is approved. By combined the trades into the ACISS occupation they have diluted the spec occupations enough that there isn't a critical mass of pers in spec pay qualifying jobs...

 

[PuckChaser]

But didn't you hear, all sub occ WOs and above are going to get Spec 2! Because they will be doing so much specialist work as a LCMM....  :

 

[211RadOp]

But didn't you hear, all sub occ WOs and above are going to get Spec 2! Because they will be doing so much specialist work as a LCMM....  :

Not this cat!! They will not be able to drag me into one of those jobs!!

(And yes I noted your sarcasm, but I still don't want that job)

 

[PuckChaser]

Not this cat!! They will not be able to drag me into one of those jobs!!

(And yes I noted your sarcasm, but I still don't want that job)

Here, here! Canvas monkeys unite.  ;D

 

[Sig_Des]

Here, here! Canvas monkeys unite.  ;D

It's cool to be core!

 

[Jammer]

Hear, Hear!!!

 

[c_canuk]

"Directorate of Pay Policy and Development

DPPD is responsible for the strategic advancement of Canadian Forces compensation policy, within the guidelines provided by Treasury Board, in such a way as to enhance the Forces' ability to attract, retain and motivate its most valuable resource - its members."

Hmmm. Not really motivating too many folks as far as I've seen...

Typical doublespeak that you find everywhere.

The public face statement is always about how a dept gets orgasms from doing the best job they can, putting everyone else above themselves and working ceaselessly towards constant improvement because they are perfect team players.

In reality depts are always staffed with overworked and burned out people, who are only concerned with toe'ing the party line and not getting hassled.

Since no one figuratively lost their heads over the previous delays, processing the spec pay request is low on their priority list and will not have a firm deadline until there are consequences for failure to meet them.

This is not as much a reflection on those that should be working on it, but a reflection on how many hats everyone has to wear these days. The items with the lowest repercussions for failure, and thus those with the lowest priority, are the cans that get constantly kicked down the road.

The question is, how do we get the priority raised and who in our organization should be raising hell...

 

[PuckChaser]

The question is, how do we get the priority raised and who in our organization should be raising hell...

D Sigs should be, as the very livelihood of his trades are at stake here. But time will tell.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

D Sigs should be, as the very livelihood of his trades are at stake here. But time will tell.

Ha! Seeing as most of the upper echelons of the D Sigs shop has been pushing ye olde "Embrace change and quit bitching" line for the past 5 years makes me very skeptical that they have a vested interest in the livelihood of the trades.

For a pessimist, I'm pretty optimistic about MES. However my realist tendancies are pushing me to believe Spec Pay is the opiate ofthe ACISS trade.

 

[c_canuk]

Ha! Seeing as most of the upper echelons of the D Sigs shop has been pushing ye olde "Embrace change and quit bitching" line for the past 5 years makes me very skeptical that they have a vested interest in the livelihood of the trades.

For a pessimist, I'm pretty optimistic about MES. However my realist tendancies are pushing me to believe Spec Pay is the opiate ofthe ACISS trade.

You know my tin foil hat wants to suggest the possibility that one of the points of ACISS was to provide the opportunity to revoke spec pay from the trade.

I mean they've already come out to say that they intend to hijack whole waves of ACISS Core students and push them into sub occupations for short term needs, then when the need is over let them apply to go to other sub occs. The example given was the Olympics.

The reason for this, they stated, is to make sigs more agile, but they gloss over what a clusterfrig that would be to your career if you were shoved into line and intended to go tech, ist or core. it'd be at least a 2 year delay on your projected path. You'd probably deal with the consequences for 5 years or more when you compare time lines for promotions compared to those that didn't get force tasked out of their normal career progression path.


The tin foil hat also wants to suggest that maybe the reason this can keeps getting kicked down the road is so that those getting ready to retire don't have to deal with their pension being mucked with if spec pay gets revoked... although I would assume any collecting it would get grandfathered, not just loose it.

It feels to me that we're not seen as individual soldiers anymore, but interchangeable plug and play things that have no career aspirations.

I think if spec pay doesn't come about, there are going to be a lot of people looking to change MOC or release if they don't start realizing the negative impact this stuff will have on people's careers.

I mean they already expect us to volunteer in the community, take career and trade courses, do OPMEs (defunct now), and second language trg on our own time, Then you add in workup trg and missions...

At some point they need to wake up and realize there are only so many hours in the day and this kind of workload is burning people out. People need time to relax and look after their families as well. And they need to be able to tell their families what is going to happen for the next year or so.

 

[c_canuk]

Friendly tip to anyone who wants to make it past MCpl in IST at least but probably the whole trade.

Don't wait for the CF to Offer second language training, it's pretty much senior Sgt and WO only, but you're going to need it if you want to get that far.

Don't say I didn't warn ya.

 

[PuckChaser]

Friendly tip to anyone who wants to make it past MCpl in IST at least but probably the whole trade.

Don't wait for the CF to Offer second language training, it's pretty much senior Sgt and WO only, but you're going to need it if you want to get that far.

Don't say I didn't warn ya.

They cut French SLT in half this year for budget cuts, only being offered to merited MWOs from what I've heard. I believe there was only 2 year-long spots for the whole trade last year, and I'd expect the same this year.

 

[211RadOp]

They cut French SLT in half this year for budget cuts, only being offered to merited MWOs from what I've heard. I believe there was only 2 year-long spots for the whole trade last year, and I'd expect the same this year.

Then I know both (Sgts) and they are both in Kingston doing the course.  I'm fairly certain there were more than two this (last) year.

 

[BigDaddyFatback]

So, I heard a rumor...

The rumor goes like this, IST could be removed as a sub occ.

IST's who were techs will go back to CST and IST Sig Ops will go to ACISS core.

Just a rumor, but if spec pay is proving to be difficult to get for all sub occ's, I could see this coming to fruition.

It would be basically the same trade setup as it was before, with CST getting/keeping spec pay.

Anyone else hear this?

Remember...just a rumor!

 

[PuckChaser]

If they get rid of IST, which is one of the big reasons we did this gongshow, then we better roll back everything. IST was going to become obsolete soon anyways, Core pers would have needed the same networking training to run all the new IP-based green kit.

 

[REDinstaller]

I've heard the rumour of going back to the future, evidently the grown ups at the NCR have realized that the implosion wasn't worth the grief

 

[buzgo]

I'm not too sure about obsolescence for IST, right now there is a lot of dependence on FSRs and other contractors to keep things running - these jobs could and should be done by mil pers but your average ACISS core soldier is not qualified to do the task, and quite honestly there is enough to learn with HCLOS, TSL, NCCIS, EPLRS, CNR-E etc etc etc. Having a dedicated sub-occ (or trade) specifically for IT allows the development of a capability that we otherwise have had difficulty managing.

I think the main reason we 'did this gongshow' was to create a pool of personnel that can be used as radio operators, no matter what their sub occupations ultimately become.

By the way, the network task (programming routers, switches, crypto) should be a CST job, with the ACISS core running the first line help desk and the ISTs locked up in the server room managing servers.

 

[Occam]

I'm not too sure about obsolescence for IST, right now there is a lot of dependence on FSRs and other contractors to keep things running - these jobs could and should be done by mil pers but your average ACISS core soldier is not qualified to do the task, and quite honestly there is enough to learn with HCLOS, TSL, NCCIS, EPLRS, CNR-E etc etc etc. Having a dedicated sub-occ (or trade) specifically for IT allows the development of a capability that we otherwise have had difficulty managing.

I think the main reason we 'did this gongshow' was to create a pool of personnel that can be used as radio operators, no matter what their sub occupations ultimately become.

By the way, the network task (programming routers, switches, crypto) should be a CST job, with the ACISS core running the first line help desk and the ISTs locked up in the server room managing servers.

The dreams of ACISS (and ATIS Techs, and several other trades) creating a hard IT trade will never happen.  The amount of server/network administration being done by uniformed personnel will continue to decline, and more will be done by civilians.  There's just too much to learn, and the military environment barely permits someone to get really good at one role before they're promoted or simply posted away into a different role.  There's no continuity.

 

[PuckChaser]

I think the main reason we 'did this gongshow' was to create a pool of personnel that can be used as radio operators, no matter what their sub occupations ultimately become.

Good luck taking someone who's been in a helpdesk or server farm for 5-10 years and having them run a radio shift competently without maximum supervision. Either you want IST to be a trade, or you want network tasks to be with CSTs. I really don't see room for both. Why the heck would you train one trade to set up the servers, and one to manage them, and one to run helpdesk? That's the biggest waste of resources since NDHQ.

Occam is absolutely right. Deployed networks are relatively simple compared to the DWAN if you have any sort of IT skills. If you're got a Core operator, that can already program HCLOS, TSL, EPLRS, he has the base skillsets to maintain that deployed server and set up user accounts. This isn't the 1980s where some recruits have never seen a computer before. You've got kids being recruited that already have an IT background, and will get even more of it with the newer green kit that gets deployed. Managing those servers running Active Directory is not rocket surgery.

Heck, the ISTs at my unit can't even fix the simplest problems without telling us to call 7777, or I can just fix them myself. They're doing more CST backfill work than computer work, and quite frankly if I could trade them for 2 more Core operators I would in a heartbeat.

 

[BigDaddyFatback]

So is the Spec Pay decision still coming out on 1 May 13?