Army Reserve Restructuring

[medicineman]

Without massive expansion of infrastructure and airlift, I don’t see the Medium units being practical for the North.

Frankly one of the main reasons I believe that Canada should have an Airborne/Para Bde is Arctic Response.

In the 50's/60's, much like now, there were parachute capable subunits that formed a "Defence of Canada" brigade or force that could be dropped/dumped wherever to counter a land based threat, particularly in the North. Then someone finally had the bright idea to form a dedicated unit with supporting arms to do that...and now we're kinda sorta back to where we started from...only kinda sorta though.

Or an RAF Regiment type organization that focuses on securing/ managing airfields/ airheads and other logistics nodes as a firm base for other operations as part of a more expeditionary capable RCAF

Would they do all the AAA/GBAD stuff too and upset the Bird Gunners? I seem to recall the RAFR used to own Rapier batteries when the Brits were still using them - and you know how much the CAF hates duplication of effort .

 

[FJAG]

I think trying to make them a combat capable entity would result in a net loss. Accept them for what they are, and don’t try to shoe horn them into something they are not.

Absolutely agree.

Agree.
Without massive expansion of infrastructure and airlift, I don’t see the Medium units being practical for the North.

Agreed. In this construct

the RegF heavy 2 CLBG, 38 CIR, 36 CIR backed up by 34 CLBG have defence of Canada responsibilities while 5 CMBG has responsibilities for expeditionary deployments other than Europe (e.g. UN). Note the inclusion of CRPGs in the brigades. The inclusion of the CRPGs does not change their current organization or mission, it just establishes territorial working relationships.

Frankly one of the main reasons I believe that Canada should have an Airborne/Para Bde is Arctic Response.

Note the makeup of 2 CLBG. One of 30 Fd Regts (38 Arty Bde 1 Div) gun batteries is a light para bty.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Would they do all the AAA/GBAD stuff too and upset the Bird Gunners? I seem to recall the RAFR used to own Rapier batteries when the Brits were still using them - and you know how much the CAF hates duplication of effort .

Yup...

Armed Forces - Royal Air Force - r9a2 - RAF Regiment & RAF Reserves - RAF Regiment Rapier Squadron

 

[Kirkhill]

In the 50's/60's, much like now, there were parachute capable subunits that formed a "Defence of Canada" brigade or force that could be dropped/dumped wherever to counter a land based threat, particularly in the North. Then someone finally had the bright idea to form a dedicated unit with supporting arms to do that...and now we're kinda sorta back to where we started from...only kinda sorta though.

Would they do all the AAA/GBAD stuff too and upset the Bird Gunners? I seem to recall the RAFR used to own Rapier batteries when the Brits were still using them - and you know how much the CAF hates duplication of effort .

So do the Brits apparently. Apparently the RAF Regiment lost their SAMs to the Artillery. Despite still being called Gunners.

 

[FJAG]

In the 50's/60's, much like now, there were parachute capable subunits that formed a "Defence of Canada" brigade or force that could be dropped/dumped wherever to counter a land based threat, particularly in the North. Then someone finally had the bright idea to form a dedicated unit with supporting arms to do that...and now we're kinda sorta back to where we started from...only kinda sorta though.

The Mobile Strike Force was Canada's regular force army at the time. When Korea came up it was undermanned and considered inadequate for deployment which is why they raised the 25th Canadian Infantry Brigade from reserve force units and volunteer WW2 vets. The MSF was reduced in size to a rotating airborne battalion task as the Defence of Canada Force and then subsumed into the Canadian Airborne Regiment. That's now morphed into the present capabilities in the CSOR, 3 RCR and various other airborne platoons and companies.

Would they do all the AAA/GBAD stuff too and upset the Bird Gunners? I seem to recall the RAFR used to own Rapier batteries when the Brits were still using them - and you know how much the CAF hates duplication of effort .

They certainly should and it shouldn't bother the other bird gunners although Canada's fetish for centralizing everything and creating a wall between all things army and all things air force will probably prevent it.

Point air defence should involve different equipment and tactics than its more mobile cousin. Note that in WW2 the Germans had a distinction as well between field AD and static AD. The bulk of the AD forces were static and were part of the Luftwaffe organization. The army had its own field oriented AD formations and units. The Brits were organized the same way. A lot of that has to do with the fact that in a real war, the ground based and the air based point AD organizations need to be tightly coordinated. Unfortunately as we are reduced in scale to tiny forces, that distinction and separation is lost sight of.

 

[KevinB]

I thinking that the addition of a Stinger Det to the CRGP Patrols could be a viable add.

Obviously not required for 99.99% of their taskings, but…

 

[FJAG]

I thinking that the addition of a Stinger Det to the CRGP Patrols could be a viable add.

Obviously not required for 99.99% of their taskings, but…

I'm still waiting with bated breath for what Canada's GBAD solution will be. Concentrating on a small force for Latvia is difficult when you do not have a homogeneous AD system to tie into. The US has it easy building a coordinated multi-layered system. It's much harder when you do a multinational force with numerous different weapon systems. Despite the many glossy brochures, building a coherent structure, and plugging into it, is not so easy. I think AD will be a MND-N weakness for quite some time.

 

[Kirkhill]

I thinking that the addition of a Stinger Det to the CRGP Patrols could be a viable add.

Obviously not required for 99.99% of their taskings, but…

I wouldn't.

I would be looking at supplying a Company Combat Team with a AD Troop to secure an airfield or a FOB or other Vital Point.

How many of those do we need to secure in Canada?

How many of those are at risk from people with inimical tendencies that are already within our borders and on our soil and have access to the materials to make small uavs that can shut down air transportation and cell towers?

 

[MilEME09]

I wouldn't.

I would be looking at supplying a Company Combat Team with a AD Troop to secure an airfield or a FOB or other Vital Point.

How many of those do we need to secure in Canada?

How many of those are at risk from people with inimical tendencies that are already within our borders and on our soil and have access to the materials to make small uavs that can shut down air transportation and cell towers?, now order 80

toss an engagement and tracking radar on a LAV 6, add a second 25mm and reworking the mounting to increase elevation. Done, order 80 of them.

 

[Ex Ranger Instructor]

But he isn't wrong in that outside of a invasion, they don't offer the CA any more PY.
I think the CRPG setup is a great outreach system and solid bang for the buck.

I thinking that the addition of a Stinger Det to the CRGP Patrols could be a viable add.

Obviously not required for 99.99% of their taskings, but…

I understand and appreciate that we're brainstorming and throwing ideas around, and I appreciate the value in that. And it's an interesting idea.

But the Rangers as currently constructed have no warfighting role that would see them engaging in local air defense tasks. Remember that their rifles are for shooting bears- not the figurative Russian bear but actual bears. Putting them in that kind of role would be a fundamental change from where they are right now.

 

[KevinB]

I understand and appreciate that we're brainstorming and throwing ideas around, and I appreciate the value in that. And it's an interesting idea.

But the Rangers as currently constructed have no warfighting role that would see them engaging in local air defense tasks. Remember that their rifles are for shooting bears- not the figurative Russian bear but actual bears. Putting them in that kind of role would be a fundamental change from where they are right now.

I was more thinking of folks to be attached to them - as opposed to changing the nature of the CRPG themselves.
But perhaps just better off with a CSOR Det

 

[Ostrozac]

On the subject of Stingers — what do you want to kill in Canadian airspace that you can’t kill with a Canadian F-35, an American F-22 from Alaska, or in a pinch, an SM-2 off a ship? Stingers aren’t optimized for plinking small UAS, cruise missiles, or Chinese high altitude balloons, and if a VDV division pours across the Bering, Red Dawn style, then their helicopters are the least of your concerns.

 

[KevinB]

On the subject of Stingers — what do you want to kill in Canadian airspace that you can’t kill with a Canadian F-35, an American F-22 from Alaska, or in a pinch, an SM-2 off a ship? Stingers aren’t optimized for plinking small UAS, cruise missiles, or Chinese high altitude balloons, and if a VDV division pours across the Bering, Red Dawn style, then their helicopters are the least of your concerns.

Simply posturing. Plus if an ‘Errant’ Stinger where to down a Russian Bear, it’s a lot easier to blame a poorly trained Pte from the CRPG member.

 

[RangerRay]

Simply posturing. Plus if an ‘Errant’ Stinger where to down a Russian Bear, it’s a lot easier to blame a poorly trained Pte from the CRPG member.

Well, that would be one way to get Vlad’s attention…

 

[GR66]

Simply posturing. Plus if an ‘Errant’ Stinger where to down a Russian Bear, it’s a lot easier to blame a poorly trained Pte from the CRPG member.

Well, that would be one way to get Vlad’s attention…

If a Russian Bear gets within Stinger range of a CRPG then we have a lot more to worry about than getting Vlad's attention

 

[dapaterson]

If a Russian Bear gets within Stinger range of a CRPG then we have a lot more to worry about than getting Vlad's attention

Are you suggesting we don't let Rangers take Stingers home for protection from random polar Bears?

 

[Ex Ranger Instructor]

Simply posturing. Plus if an ‘Errant’ Stinger where to down a Russian Bear, it’s a lot easier to blame a poorly trained Pte from the CRPG member.

I retract my earlier opposition to this plan. Genius!

 

[dapaterson]

If a Russian Bear gets within Stinger range of a CRPG then we have a lot more to worry about than getting Vlad's attention

Look, there are no Ptes in CRPGs. They are Rangers.

Unlike the RCN illegal declaration that the three Seaman ranks have been replaced, the rank designation of Ranger has been approved by the Governor General in Council.

 

[KevinB]

Are you suggesting we don't let Rangers take Stingers home for protection from random polar Bears?

That is what the Javelins are for...

 

[medicineman]

That is what the Javelins are for...

We're talking about the ATGM variant, not the upgraded Blowpipe variant right?