Army Reserve Restructuring

[dapaterson]

Dont get me wrong, I have known a lot of people in Class B positions who do fantastic jobs, but also the other side of that coin I have met a lot who do the bare minimum to keep their jobs and do everything in their power to avoid additional work

That is not unique to any workforce.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I was pretty specific that it was my situation, I was pretty clear on that. You’re also in a situation with a lot of reserve infrastructure in your city - ie you have the CBG HQ, which has around 70-100 full time staff, not a universal position. Frankly I don’t know anyone who’s gotten out and wants to go to the reserves if they have more than six years in. No one wants to give up 40-80 plus grand. Of course that’s also conjecture.



Well if we look at the army, and I assume we mean the field army because of the way the reserves skews, Edmonton and Valcartier (20 min from Quebec City) amount to about 70 percent of the units. Shilo and Pet are the outliers. Gagetown is a bit odd in the Freddy is small, but has amenities usually found in a larger city.

1980's , Shilo was a terrible place to be posted as a OR. To many people I knew became alcoholics and/or divorced. there was very little to do and very few job opportunities for the non-military spouse.

 

[MilEME09]

1980's , Shilo was a terrible place to be posted as a OR. To many people I knew became alcoholics and/or divorced. there was very little to do and very few job opportunities for the non-military spouse.

bases seem to be getting wore not better in the past 10 years for things to do on or near bases. I know Borden has had everything closed on long weekends the past 4 times of been there (as recent as last year), and when you are on Class B from the other side of the country without a vehicle, having nothing to do on a weekend, such as the theatre, bowling ally, gym, Jr ranks etc can be frustrating that one would need to take a $30+ cab ride to go do anything

 

[Kirkhill]

If I am understanding the US situation clearly the US Air Force, Space Force and Alaska Air National Guard are currently having the Class B/C debate in real time.

Most Air Guard members affected by proposal to shift to Space Force would rather retrain or retire, officials say

Air National Guard leaders estimated up to 70% of their space-focused airmen would resist a transfer to Space Force should Congress approve an Air Force proposal to move 14 Guard units into the newest service branch.

www.stripes.com

‘Betrayal’: Air Guardsmen, governors pile on criticism of plan to move units to Space Force

The proposal is an “existential threat” to the Air National Guard, one commander says.

www.defenseone.com

‘Extremely dangerous’: Governors criticize ‘federalization’ of National Guard

Governors from 53 U.S. states and territories object to the Defense Department's plan to move all Air National Guardsman with space-related missions from state to federal control, placing them under the umbrella of the U.S. Air Force, specifically the Space Force.

www.govexec.com

They, of course, have the additional complication that their "militiamen/guardsmen" are owned by the Governor of Alaska (I know that is up for debate @KevinB but that is kind of the point isn't it?).

NORAD had the responsibility of monitoring and controlling the space above North America. That meant bombers, missiles and balloons. The job was handed to the Air National Guard. Alaska, New York and Colorado became control centers and the majority of the people doing the monitoring were local National Guardsmen effectively working what we might consider class B/C contracts. They were citizens of their states, working state jobs for the benefit of the nation at large. They developed their particular skill sets in situ.

Now the Space Force, the Air Force and the National Guards are trying to figure out what their job sets are and the Space Force is saying if they look into space their jobs are ours. Alaskans are not looking thrilled at the possibility of being federalized and reassigned to California or Guam.

...

And the Governors are not thrilled at the Feds bigfooting their turf.

 

[daftandbarmy]

bases seem to be getting wore not better in the past 10 years for things to do on or near bases. I know Borden has had everything closed on long weekends the past 4 times of been there (as recent as last year), and when you are on Class B from the other side of the country without a vehicle, having nothing to do on a weekend, such as the theatre, bowling ally, gym, Jr ranks etc can be frustrating that one would need to take a $30+ cab ride to go do anything

And the utility, cost effectiveness and operational need/ efficiency of the whole Eisenhower era, uniquely North American, 'base' system enters the chat

 

[WinnipegFella]

And the utility, cost effectiveness and operational need/ efficiency of the whole Eisenhower era, uniquely North American, 'base' system enters the chat

Please elaborate, I'm intrigued.

 

[KevinB]

If I am understanding the US situation clearly the US Air Force, Space Force and Alaska Air National Guard are currently having the Class B/C debate in real time.

Most Air Guard members affected by proposal to shift to Space Force would rather retrain or retire, officials say

Air National Guard leaders estimated up to 70% of their space-focused airmen would resist a transfer to Space Force should Congress approve an Air Force proposal to move 14 Guard units into the newest service branch.

www.stripes.com

‘Betrayal’: Air Guardsmen, governors pile on criticism of plan to move units to Space Force

The proposal is an “existential threat” to the Air National Guard, one commander says.

www.defenseone.com

‘Extremely dangerous’: Governors criticize ‘federalization’ of National Guard

Governors from 53 U.S. states and territories object to the Defense Department's plan to move all Air National Guardsman with space-related missions from state to federal control, placing them under the umbrella of the U.S. Air Force, specifically the Space Force.

www.govexec.com

They, of course, have the additional complication that their "militiamen/guardsmen" are owned by the Governor of Alaska (I know that is up for debate @KevinB but that is kind of the point isn't it?).

NORAD had the responsibility of monitoring and controlling the space above North America. That meant bombers, missiles and balloons. The job was handed to the Air National Guard. Alaska, New York and Colorado became control centers and the majority of the people doing the monitoring were local National Guardsmen effectively working what we might consider class B/C contracts. They were citizens of their states, working state jobs for the benefit of the nation at large. They developed their particular skill sets in situ.

Now the Space Force, the Air Force and the National Guards are trying to figure out what their job sets are and the Space Force is saying if they look into space their jobs are ours. Alaskans are not looking thrilled at the possibility of being federalized and reassigned to California or Guam.

...

And the Governors are not thrilled at the Feds bigfooting their turf.

It’s a lot more complicated than a class B or C discussion. It’s more like telling a Class B Calgary Highlander that they are now both in the RCN and Regular Force at the same time.

The easy button is to make a Space Force Guard - but that’s been stalled for a while.

I don’t understand Space Force, nor the impetus for its creation - so I’m the last guy to understand why DoD wants to realign units out of the NG into Space Force.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Google Earth tells me the longer one still has 9,000 open feet of runway with Buildings at the North west end so a Herc could have some fun.

1980's , Shilo was a terrible place to be posted as a OR. To many people I knew became alcoholics and/or divorced. there was very little to do and very few job opportunities for the non-military spouse.

I was in Shilo in the early 1960s - it was, then, one of the camps with new, quite modern facilities - compared to say, Kingston and Petawawa. That was, I was told, intentional. The Army's leadership knew it was isolated, etc, so they "experimented" a bit with things like a "shop" (CANEX wasn't even a thing then) and a bowling alley and a swimming pool and theatre and a "dry canteen" all in one complex and a "wet canteen" into which one was not ashamed to take a lady, right next door.

 

[WinnipegFella]

I was in Shilo in the early 1960s - it was, then, one of the camps with new, quite modern facilities - compared to say, Kingston and Petawawa. That was, I was told, intentional. The Army's leadership knew it was isolated, etc, so they "experimented" a bit with things like a "shop" (CANEX wasn't even a thing then) and a bowling alley and a swimming pool and theatre and a "dry canteen" all in one complex and a "wet canteen" into which one was not ashamed to take a lady, right next door.

The model was probably viable when single income families were possible. Pretty damn tough these days, especially if the Qs keep getting rarer and more expensive.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Please elaborate, I'm intrigued.

The North American 'base' system is a legacy of the need to manage a remote, colonial empire, win two world wars (and a Civil War and Indian Wars in the US), and to survive the Cold War - remember 'nuclear dispersion? It's inordinately expensive to maintain, putting punishing pressure on increasingly constrained defence budgets, and inflexible to changing requirements of modern war/life.

Few similar structures exist in Europe. For example, outside of larger numbers of smaller concentrations of military infrastructure, inter-mixed with local civilian infrastructure, which makes it more resilient to change, more cost effective in a variety of ways, and integrated better with the civilian community - kind of like the way our militia is now situated e.g., based in local armouries/ facilities for example.

Viz:

Why military bases are where they are

A map of U.S. military bases is a chronicle of perils now gone, often long gone — from hostile Indians to Cold War specters.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Kilted]

It’s a lot more complicated than a class B or C discussion. It’s more like telling a Class B Calgary Highlander that they are now both in the RCN and Regular Force at the same time.

The easy button is to make a Space Force Guard - but that’s been stalled for a while.

I don’t understand Space Force, nor the impetus for its creation - so I’m the last guy to understand why DoD wants to realign units out of the NG into Space Force.

I know that the National Guard can be called into Federal Service in the case of emergencies. But do they have the power to tell Guardsmen that they are now permanently part of the regular force in a different branch?

 

[KevinB]

The North American 'base' system is a legacy of the need to manage a remote, colonial empire, win two world wars (and a Civil War and Indian Wars in the US), and to survive the Cold War - remember 'nuclear dispersion? It's inordinately expensive to maintain, putting punishing pressure on increasingly constrained defence budgets, and inflexible to changing requirements of modern war/life.

Few similar structures exist in Europe. For example, outside of larger numbers of smaller concentrations of military infrastructure, inter-mixed with local civilian infrastructure, which makes it more resilient to change, more cost effective in a variety of ways, and integrated better with the civilian community - kind of like the way our militia is now situated e.g., based in local armouries/ facilities for example.

Viz:

Why military bases are where they are

A map of U.S. military bases is a chronicle of perils now gone, often long gone — from hostile Indians to Cold War specters.

www.nbcnews.com

North America also had land to keep the troops far away from the people…

 

[KevinB]

I know that the National Guard can be called into Federal Service in the case of emergencies. But do they have the power to tell Guardsmen that they are now permanently part of the regular force in a different branch?

No, but DoD as the ‘manager’ can move and reassign units. So the personnel would either need to change units, and potentially need to change their MOS, or accept the element transfer to Space Force with their unit.

The National Guard takes a huge amount of Federal money as a whole, as few states can afford to field their forces on their own. So he who has the money gets to write the rules for the most part.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The North American 'base' system is a legacy of the need to manage a remote, colonial empire, win two world wars (and a Civil War and Indian Wars in the US), and to survive the Cold War - remember 'nuclear dispersion? It's inordinately expensive to maintain, putting punishing pressure on increasingly constrained defence budgets, and inflexible to changing requirements of modern war/life.

Few similar structures exist in Europe. For example, outside of larger numbers of smaller concentrations of military infrastructure, inter-mixed with local civilian infrastructure, which makes it more resilient to change, more cost effective in a variety of ways, and integrated better with the civilian community - kind of like the way our militia is now situated e.g., based in local armouries/ facilities for example.

Viz:

Why military bases are where they are

A map of U.S. military bases is a chronicle of perils now gone, often long gone — from hostile Indians to Cold War specters.

www.nbcnews.com

Artillery school Segovia, right in the city core

Infantry school Toledo, 5 minutes from the Old City

 

[Blackadder1916]

JATO?

 

[Kirkhill]

I was in Shilo in the early 1960s - it was, then, one of the camps with new, quite modern facilities - compared to say, Kingston and Petawawa. That was, I was told, intentional. The Army's leadership knew it was isolated, etc, so they "experimented" a bit with things like a "shop" (CANEX wasn't even a thing then) and a bowling alley and a swimming pool and theatre and a "dry canteen" all in one complex and a "wet canteen" into which one was not ashamed to take a lady, right next door.

That makes it sound a lot like Cornwallis circa 1969. Able Cadet Kirkhill in attendance.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Artillery school Segovia, right in the city core

Infantry school Toledo, 5 minutes from the Old City

 

[RangerRay]

Artillery school Segovia, right in the city core

Infantry school Toledo, 5 minutes from the Old City

Much like the German “Kaserne” in the middle of the cities.

 

[markppcli]

The model was probably viable when single income families were possible. Pretty damn tough these days, especially if the Qs keep getting rarer and more expensive.

Shilo is probably the best set up for Qs in the country. 800 for a newly renovated 3 bedroom stand alone ?

Other bases - for sure more problematic, but frankly my wife’s commute to Brandon isn’t much worse than her commute to downtown Edmonton was.

God dean it I’m defending Shilo… it’s officially gotten me. Ironically I tend to agree that more integrated into civilian infrastructure is better. Shilo as a range makes sense, as a place for humans to live ? Less so.

 

[FJAG]

Artillery school Segovia, right in the city core

Infantry school Toledo, 5 minutes from the Old City

Much like the German “Kaserne” in the middle of the cities.

Urban 30/70 battalions enter the chat.



I had to do it - couldn't stop myself.