• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Army Reserve Restructuring

Crazy crazy idea - have the reserve regiments parade in Shilo over weekends. We have simulators for everything, a training area, and the MTF for facilities. There’s even clothing stores and messes, and accommodations available. Failing that parade out of a school building at 17 Wing. We are spoiled with this reserve regiments need their own buildings things. I think the exact same thing about Dundurn and Edmonton btw.

I recall they tried something like that at Chilliwack, years ago, arguing everything the Reserves needed was just waiting there for them a couple of hours drive from Vancouver.

Then the Reg F closed the base down...
 
The Reg F or the GoC?

That was also the last time the GoC decided to cut the PYs to maintain capabilities... That worked well for both the Reg f and Res F it seems. 😉

Well, 'they' moved 1 CER and 3 VP to Edmonton so that BC wouldn't have any Reg F Army units in locaiton.

Call is a bit of house cleaning. ;)
 
A slightly off topic question:


Is it common to list ones decorations like GCS as post nominals ? Or is that something done in halls of academia ? And I am not sure what MA is.

Colonel _____________, CD1, MA, GCS-SWA, CPSM, UNMIS
No, it’s neither common nor correct.

Colonel Setter is just trying to big herself up and make it look like she has been awarded actual decorations rather than attendance medals.
 
Crazy crazy idea - have the reserve regiments parade in Shilo over weekends. We have simulators for everything, a training area, and the MTF for facilities. There’s even clothing stores and messes, and accommodations available. Failing that parade out of a school building at 17 Wing. We are spoiled with this reserve regiments need their own buildings things. I think the exact same thing about Dundurn and Edmonton btw.
We should look at ways to maximize training time as well. Units in calgary prefer not to go to wainwright for example and are now preferring suffield because its about 6h to drive there, you get in at 0100 saturday morning, wake up at 0600, get a day of training, and sunday you gotta pack up and drive back for a 1600 dismissal. Looking at under utilized facilities like suffield and expanding them would help a lot, but maybe we need to get creative with transportation to bases. Military service high speed rail could be a way to move people and cargo around the country.
 
Crazy crazy idea - have the reserve regiments parade in Shilo over weekends. We have simulators for everything, a training area, and the MTF for facilities. There’s even clothing stores and messes, and accommodations available. Failing that parade out of a school building at 17 Wing. We are spoiled with this reserve regiments need their own buildings things. I think the exact same thing about Dundurn and Edmonton btw.
Good luck getting wing to support in Wpg lol, they won't even fix the shit they've been told to fix.

As for Shilo, I agree to an extent. Most courses should be run in Shilo (or Edm/Wx/etc) but I disagree somewhat because this shouldn't be a zero sum game. There's no reason a Sim centre or LTF couldn't be built for reservists in Winnipeg or Calgary as examples. In fact, we should be investing heavily into urban CAF infrastructure to replace some of the damage that the closing of bases like CFB Calgary or CFB Winnipeg South had on public perception of the CAF in large cities. Using CFB Winnipeg as an example, there are several underutilized areas of the base that'd be great for a new super-armoury, such as the Wing outdoor club area that is legitimately meters from a railhead. This is especially true if the Reserves are going to grow as policy hopes to achieve and itll put a nice little dent in that gigantic amount of money jeeded for >2%.
 
Good luck getting wing to support in Wpg lol, they won't even fix the shit they've been told to fix.

As for Shilo, I agree to an extent. Most courses should be run in Shilo (or Edm/Wx/etc) but I disagree somewhat because this shouldn't be a zero sum game. There's no reason a Sim centre or LTF couldn't be built for reservists in Winnipeg or Calgary as examples. In fact, we should be investing heavily into urban CAF infrastructure to replace some of the damage that the closing of bases like CFB Calgary or CFB Winnipeg South had on public perception of the CAF in large cities. Using CFB Winnipeg as an example, there are several underutilized areas of the base that'd be great for a new super-armoury, such as the Wing outdoor club area that is legitimately meters from a railhead. This is especially true if the Reserves are going to grow as policy hopes to achieve and itll put a nice little dent in that gigantic amount of money jeeded for >2%.

Coincidentally, in the commercial real estate market...


Nationwide Vacancy Rates at Record Highs

The Canadian office real estate market is undergoing a significant adjustment, according to a recent report by Cushman & Wakefield. Vacancy rates hit a historic peak of 17.1% in the first quarter of 2024, surpassing the previous record set in 1992. This trend is particularly evident in prime downtown locations (Class A spaces) which saw vacancies rise from 17.1% to 17.5% in just the first three months of this year.

Market Dynamics and Regional Impact​

The report delves deeper, revealing a nationwide surplus of 99 million square feet of available office space, a 7.5% increase year-over-year. An additional 5.5 million square feet of new office space is projected to enter the market throughout 2024, potentially pushing vacancy rates even higher.

The impact of these rising vacancies varies significantly across Canada. While the national employment rate has seen a modest decline despite population growth, smaller and medium-sized cities are feeling the brunt of the vacancy surge. Calgary faces a staggering vacancy rate of 26.6%, while Saint John reports an even higher rate of 35.7%. Ontario cities like Kitchener and London are also experiencing significant vacancy levels, at 26.3% and 21.2% respectively.

 
Good luck getting wing to support in Wpg lol, they won't even fix the shit they've been told to fix.

This is the crux, the Army cant tell the Wing to fix poop. Its the same issue in Halifax, TEME, our local TN and Maint org, are a company sized sub unit of BLog; which is Base Logistics (Base Supply really). And they work for the CFB Halifax BComd, who reports to MARLANT which is RCN. BLog's, and by extension TEMEs, reason to exist is to support the fleet.

So while TEME can and does work on 36 CBG vehicles they are just a customer and not the priority customer for TEME. Which is why I said elsewhere that the Army should look at cutting their support from competing L1s like the RCN and establish their own Log and Maint support in areas like Halifax, and I suspect Winnipeg, where the other element is demanding all the support.

I had to explain to the CoS out here in the CBG. 36 CBG and even 5 Div ain't the show in Halifax. You folks are second and third fiddle out here. To this day I boggles me that 5 Div has their HQ here. I feel like Gagetown is a much more appropriate place for that.
 
This is the crux, the Army cant tell the Wing to fix poop. Its the same issue in Halifax, TEME, our local TN and Maint org, are a company sized sub unit of BLog; which is Base Logistics (Base Supply really). And they work for the CFB Halifax BComd, who reports to MARLANT which is RCN. BLog's, and by extension TEMEs, reason to exist is to support the fleet.

So while TEME can and does work on 36 CBG vehicles they are just a customer and not the priority customer for TEME. Which is why I said elsewhere that the Army should look at cutting their support from competing L1s like the RCN and establish their own Log and Maint support in areas like Halifax, and I suspect Winnipeg, where the other element is demanding all the support.

I had to explain to the CoS out here in the CBG. 36 CBG and even 5 Div ain't the show in Halifax. You folks are second and third fiddle out here. To this day I boggles me that 5 Div has their HQ here. I feel like Gagetown is a much more appropriate place for that.
Exactly. This why the reserves needs its own infrastructure.
 
This is the crux, the Army cant tell the Wing to fix poop. Its the same issue in Halifax, TEME, our local TN and Maint org, are a company sized sub unit of BLog; which is Base Logistics (Base Supply really). And they work for the CFB Halifax BComd, who reports to MARLANT which is RCN. BLog's, and by extension TEMEs, reason to exist is to support the fleet.

So while TEME can and does work on 36 CBG vehicles they are just a customer and not the priority customer for TEME. Which is why I said elsewhere that the Army should look at cutting their support from competing L1s like the RCN and establish their own Log and Maint support in areas like Halifax, and I suspect Winnipeg, where the other element is demanding all the support.

I had to explain to the CoS out here in the CBG. 36 CBG and even 5 Div ain't the show in Halifax. You folks are second and third fiddle out here. To this day I boggles me that 5 Div has their HQ here. I feel like Gagetown is a much more appropriate place for that.
Log and maint in the army world always seems second fiddle. 41 has been sharing a building with 3 CDSG tech services for years, in the old ASU calgary building which is not sufficient size for supporting half a brigade, and housing two reserve companies. yet you have facilities like Debney in Edmonton that are very modern by comparison but their work goes to the base.. The army doesn't seem to even have its own priorities straight
 
Good luck getting wing to support in Wpg lol, they won't even fix the shit they've been told to fix.

As for Shilo, I agree to an extent. Most courses should be run in Shilo (or Edm/Wx/etc) but I disagree somewhat because this shouldn't be a zero sum game. There's no reason a Sim centre or LTF couldn't be built for reservists in Winnipeg or Calgary as examples. In fact, we should be investing heavily into urban CAF infrastructure to replace some of the damage that the closing of bases like CFB Calgary or CFB Winnipeg South had on public perception of the CAF in large cities. Using CFB Winnipeg as an example, there are several underutilized areas of the base that'd be great for a new super-armoury, such as the Wing outdoor club area that is legitimately meters from a railhead. This is especially true if the Reserves are going to grow as policy hopes to achieve and itll put a nice little dent in that gigantic amount of money jeeded for >2%.
Or we could make use of existing infrastructure that gets used Monday to Friday and see it get use Saturday and Sunday instead of throwing money at projects for vague ideas of “damage to urban perception” or what ever. It is frankly absurd that we think we need to have specific training facilities for what amounts to company minus organizations, who then require the to be maintained and kept up when we have perfectly good facilities two hours down the road. We are so married to the “the men shall parade at the armouries!” As a concept we ignore its rather obvious inefficiency. Could a new super armourie - ie a BN building like the two in Shilo, help get us closer to 2%? Uh maybe, but we already have billions in infrastructure costs in coming.


* this gets even stupider in Edmonton, Brandon, Quebec City, and Fredricton.
 
Exactly. This why the reserves needs its own infrastructure.
No, it’s why 17 Wing doesn’t work. A reorganization and changed understanding of how the reserves should train and the reserves could be using better facilities that are just slightly further away.
 
Or we could make use of existing infrastructure that gets used Monday to Friday and see it get use Saturday and Sunday instead of throwing money at projects for vague ideas of “damage to urban perception” or what ever. It is frankly absurd that we think we need to have specific training facilities for what amounts to company minus organizations, who then require the to be maintained and kept up when we have perfectly good facilities two hours down the road. We are so married to the “the men shall parade at the armouries!” As a concept we ignore its rather obvious inefficiency. Could a new super armourie - ie a BN building like the two in Shilo, help get us closer to 2%? Uh maybe, but we already have billions in infrastructure costs in coming.


* this gets even stupider in Edmonton, Brandon, Quebec City, and Fredricton.
There's nothing absurd about it. Our current armouries across Canada are crumbling as they should have been retired a half century ago. Instead of just kicking the can down the road we can have something called  foresight and build for the force we want, not the one we have. Lets economize space by building super armouries that can house the entire city's reserve garrison. Lets have facilities for maintenance personnel. Lets have a kitchen like the old armouries used to have. Heaven help if the militiamen can have facilities from this century and not have to conduct a 250 km road move to be able to change the oil in their GWagon haha.

If a policy similar to the Journey ever gets resurrected, wouldnt it be ideal to have facilities in place for full timers in the urban areas they actually want to live in? If we need to build anyways, let's build something with workshops, motor pools, quarters for BMQs, PLQs, etc. etc. in case we ever need them or policy shifts to something like what FJAG and others here envision with 30/70 regiments. Sure, you're right maybe this doesn't apply to places like Edmonton or Freddy due to their close proximity to major bases, but the majority of the Reserves don't have that luxury.

Final point on public perception, don't underestimate it. We wax poetic about how Canadians are ill-informed of our institution and don't give a shit about us. Is this surprising when we've moved the a ton of our army to places like Shilo MB or Petawawa ON? 2VP as an example used to be a part of the Winnipeg community, it was known and was active in the area. Now you'd be lucky to find someone under 40 who knew what Kapyong was, nevermind who used it.
 
There's nothing absurd about it. Our current armouries across Canada are crumbling as they should have been retired a half century ago. Instead of just kicking the can down the road we can have something called  foresight and build for the force we want, not the one we have. Lets economize space by building super armouries that can house the entire city's reserve garrison. Lets have facilities for maintenance personnel. Lets have a kitchen like the old armouries used to have. Heaven help if the militiamen can have facilities from this century and not have to conduct a 250 km road move to be able to change the oil in their GWagon haha.

If a policy similar to the Journey ever gets resurrected, wouldnt it be ideal to have facilities in place for full timers in the urban areas they actually want to live in? If we need to build anyways, let's build something with workshops, motor pools, quarters for BMQs, PLQs, etc. etc. in case we ever need them or policy shifts to something like what FJAG and others here envision with 30/70 regiments. Sure, you're right maybe this doesn't apply to places like Edmonton or Freddy due to their close proximity to major bases, but the majority of the Reserves don't have that luxury.

There isn’t a single argument you’ve made here that isn’t answered by having units base themselves and train at the nearest base.

  • Newer buildings fit for purpose check
  • Economy of space check
  • Maintenance facility check
  • A kitchen (with people employed to cook there even)
The journey never left the cutting room floor and it’s dead. We aren’t going to build new bases to facilitate a dead personel management plan.

Driving two hours to train isn’t actually a big deal. He’ll I know guys in the IS National Guard that parade two states over. We just have to get used to the idea of training where facilities are. And that includes an actual training area. I work squarely in the army that is, and think about the army that can exist in 10 years. I don’t worry about what could happen if we spent 100 billion on rebuilding every old base over twenty years.

Final point on public perception, don't underestimate it. We wax poetic about how Canadians are ill-informed of our institution and don't give a shit about us. Is this surprising when we've moved the a ton of our army to places like Shilo MB or Petawawa ON? 2VP as an example used to be a part of the Winnipeg community, it was known and was active in the area. Now you'd be lucky to find someone under 40 who knew what Kapyong was, nevermind who used it.

I don’t wax poetic about ill informed Canadians. I don’t particularly care if the average Canadian has heard about Lindy’s Lane or Kapyong or the White School frankly. I care if we have an army reserve that can be trained at facilities fit for purpose. I care that we have perfectly good facilities close to major Canadian cities that would dramatically improve the training available to those reservists with a very simple change.
 
* this gets even stupider in Edmonton, Brandon, Quebec City, and Fredricton.
Driving two hours to train isn’t actually a big deal. He’ll I know guys in the IS National Guard that parade two states over.
You are once again regressing to a RegF position built around a RegF mind set. What it primarily ignores is the ties between a local community and its ResF units.

I would expect the potential recruits in Toronto would be most reluctant to make their way to Borden or Meaford every second weekend (assuming the army could reclaim Borden for their use). You might find the odd national guardsman making that slog to stay with a unit/branch of his choice, but the vast majority operate out of a hundreds if not thousands of small compnay-sized armouries - some old and decrepit many more utilitarian - in local communities and spread throughout major cities.

I fully agree that much of the major equipment should be kept at facilities that provide live fire training and maintenance opportunities but those do not need to be visited more than several times per year. But the unit itself - be it as small as a rifle company - needs an anchor, handy to the community (and which can often double as an emergency shelter for the community and as assembly areas for the unit itself and its local administration.) Personnel equipment, small arms and some vehicles should be handy to these local communities as much of the training can take place there. For specialist units, representative equipment or simulators can and should be made available in major urban centres. Lets just say that there is absolutely no reason why several LAVs or Archer howitzers couldn't be available and be properly maintained at Downsview for the units in Toronto to use for training.

The idea that we time share equipment, Mon to Fri RegF; Sat-Sun ResF is a good one and is the basic rational behind a 30/70 hybrid unit construct (at least until 100% equipment holdings are acquired). But why make reservists travel to a RegF base? Why not build infrastructure in urban centres that RegF personnel can be posted to? Numerous full-time pers want to live a stable life in a large city where spouses can have a profession, education opportunities for children exist and extended families are close at hand.

I couldn't think of a faster way to kill off the ResF than to have its facilities and operations get concentrated onto the handful of existing RegF bases. The reality of a country as vast as Canada is that you have to pay a premium because in order to have functioning voluntary military it needs to be distributed widely to where the people are. Much of the training and administration needs to be done there. . . And yes, even in Brandon (speaking as someone who had to drive from his PMQ in Shilo to the Brandon armouries every workday for two years) Edmonton is the only city that you cite that really makes sense, and even here it would be well served by a satellite facility in the south end of the city.

There are many things wrong with the army and its ResF that needs fixing but the general concept of being amongst the people that it draws its personnel from isn't one of those things.

My own view of making good use of that mystical 2% is to build urban bases in the major cities across the country. There's land available to build compact bases that can provide essential infrastructure for a unit as well as condominium-style quarters and PMQs. One would think that by this time an military structure that has problems maintaining its human capital would have figured out a practical way to revitalize local community infrastructure to maximize its potential.

🍻
 
When 2 PPCLI was in Winnipeg there was a lot of the city had no idea we were there. The people that lived near the base knew as the loved to complain about us being there (loud diesel trucks, platoons doing PT with weapons on the streets...) even though the base was built before any of the housing was around it.
 
When 2 PPCLI was in Winnipeg there was a lot of the city had no idea we were there. The people that lived near the base knew as the loved to complain about us being there (loud diesel trucks, platoons doing PT with weapons on the streets...) even though the base was built before any of the housing was around it.
1 RCR London same
 
Back
Top