Army Reserve Restructuring

[KevinB]

So you don’t have division HQs having an incestuous relationship to a single Reg F brigade and knowing only a single region of the country despite holding cross Canada responsibilities. The Expeditionary Div cannot be a 1 CMBG club and it will need pers from 2 CMBG & 5 CMBG & 6 CCSB & Fires. The Defence of Canada Div cannot be a 5 GBMC with 33 CBG & 34 CBG club. The support division cannot be a 2 CMBG club. Functionally focused divisions should result in more annual moves than the current geographical divisions.

A size of the CA combined with Cap badge mafia already make the CA incestuous.

Honestly it’s one real Div and 2 fake ones anyway. The DoC Div is PRes, and the Support Div is base side - neither of which realistically rate a 2* MGen position.

 

[McG]

A size of the CA combined with Cap badge mafia already make the CA incestuous.

All the more reason to not make it worse.

 

[Ludoc]

So 3 Div HQ is moving from Edmonton to Montreal, and 2 Div HQ is moving from Montreal to Edmonton?

What? No. The Manoeuvre Div will be called 3 Div and based out of Edmonton. The Defence of Canada Div will be based out of Montreal and be called 2 Div. Support Div will be called 4 Div and is looking for a home. CADTC may get a new home and new name. Expect a bunch of sad cowboys to move East and a bunch of furious french speakers to move West as the Army tries to balance the cap badges in HQs.

The names are confusing because all the documentation from early on described them as 6, 7, & 8 Div. Then at some point it all switched 2, 3, & 4 Div. The RoD of the brief to the CCA says "stop referring to them by number, call them Defence of Canada/Support/Manoeuvre, and we will figure out numbers later". So the numbers may still change.

The locations for Support Div and Training will influence each other. Once one calls "dibs" on a location they will both have to choose a champion and through martial combat battle for the right to be there. Either that or write some briefing notes and convince the CCA which should be there.

 

[markppcli]

So you don’t have division HQs having an incestuous relationship to a single Reg F brigade and knowing only a single region of the country despite holding cross Canada responsibilities. The Expeditionary Div cannot be a 1 CMBG club and it will need pers from 2 CMBG & 5 CMBG & 6 CCSB & Fires. The Defence of Canada Div cannot be a 5 GBMC with 33 CBG & 34 CBG club. The support division cannot be a 2 CMBG club. Functionally focused divisions should result in more annual moves than the current geographical divisions.

Sorry are you suggesting they rotate the location of the Div HQ regularly? or do you mean the people inside it? I assume @PuckChaser meant moving the HQ staff complete to be a Div HQ in a different province.

 

[McG]

Sorry are you suggesting they rotate the location of the Div HQ regularly? or do you mean the people inside it? I assume @PuckChaser meant moving the HQ staff complete to be a Div HQ in a different province.

The staff in the Div HQs must be pulled from across the country. The HQs themselves will have static homes.

 

[markppcli]

The staff in the Div HQs must be pulled from across the country. The HQs themselves will have static homes.

Right I think there’s some confusing responses and phrasing that read like full scale movement of the entire head quarters which would seem like a massive disruption for marginal gain - I’d like to assume we can count on our senior officers to be a bit more professional.

 

[McG]

My post was in reply to the question "why move anyone?" We need to move people. Lots of people at first stand-up, and then less but still at an increased annual rate than the old geographic Div HQs needed. Picking up whole HQs and swapping locations or routinely moving them around the country are a nonsensical ideas ... so nonsensical that I can't help but assume anyone discussing this knows they are being ridiculous.

 

[PuckChaser]

My post was in reply to the question "why move anyone?" We need to move people. Lots of people at first stand-up, and then less but still at an increased annual rate than the old geographic Div HQs needed. Picking up whole HQs and swapping locations or routinely moving them around the country are a nonsensical ideas ... so nonsensical that I can't help but assume anyone discussing this knows they are being ridiculous.

I think you missed the point of my post. Switching 2 Div and 3 Div pers APS26 is dumb. Posting people from all over will happen, but like the incestuous relationship in NCR/Kingston/Pet/etc, you better believe the positions at the lower end staff jobs will predominately be from those areas.

 

[markppcli]

My post was in reply to the question "why move anyone?" We need to move people. Lots of people at first stand-up, and then less but still at an increased annual rate than the old geographic Div HQs needed. Picking up whole HQs and swapping locations or routinely moving them around the country are a nonsensical ideas ... so nonsensical that I can't help but assume anyone discussing this knows they are being ridiculous.

Yes but that comment (@PuckChaser) was a response to a comment (@Kilted) about moving two HQs wholes sale back and forth. So in that context your response reads as supporting whole sale moves, which is why I asked for clarity.

 

[McG]

Yes but that comment (@PuckChaser) was a response to a comment (@Kilted) about moving two HQs wholes sale back and forth. So in that context your response reads as supporting whole sale moves, which is why I asked for clarity.

Except, PuckChaser just reinforced his position as supporting the local CMBG as the Div HQs gene pool. We will not be doing ourselves favours if we allow that.

... you better believe the positions at the lower end staff jobs will predominately be from those areas.

If we want Div HQs that are effective as the higher headquarters for brigades and groups that are spread across the country, then those Div HQs need staff officers at all levels who come from across the country. Otherwise, they will be disconnected from the dispersed subordinate formations they are responsible for.

... and if you want to help connect the subordinate formations to their higher HQ, you send junior officers to that higher HQ as staff and then bring them back to the brigade.

 

[markppcli]

I was providing the context for how I read your comment as wholesale, or near wholesale, exchange.

 

[PuckChaser]

I'm not sure why this needs to be a bun fight, but if anyone thinks people won't want to try to stay stable at the early stages of their careers and reduce cost to the CAF by achieving career goals in the same geo location, you're living in a dream world. It makes 0 sense to have a policy to push post ATOC Captains across the country unless needed. Am I supposed to push an Edmonton based Cpl or MCpl Signaler to Montreal just because we have to meet some magic quota of X individuals from X Bde in every HQ? I'd like to think people have enough professionalism to understand where they came from and strive to support the whole of the Div not just their friends.

Maybe that's just my Signaler brain who's essentially a Gypsy working wherever I'm needed instead of a fixed site by nature of a silly hat/cap badge/regimental affiliation.

 

[Infanteer]

 

[FJAG]

Honestly it’s one real Div and 2 fake ones anyway. The DoC Div is PRes, and the Support Div is base side - neither of which realistically rate a 2* MGen position.

That's probably why they need two-stars so that they don't get run roughshod by that fat hulking monstrosity that is the manoeuvre div.

 

[daftandbarmy]

That's probably why they need two-stars so that they don't get run roughshod by that fat hulking monstrosity that is the manoeuvre div.

Reservists preparing for the competition for that 2* job in Montreal...

 

[McG]

It makes 0 sense to have a policy to push post ATOC Captains across the country unless needed. Am I supposed to push an Edmonton based Cpl or MCpl Signaler to Montreal just because we have to meet some magic quota of X individuals from X Bde in every HQ?

Your signaler is not part of the staff, so it doesn’t matter where they go (and half the divisions will have no HQ sigs sqn/bn). But the division HQs will require ATOC captains from across the country. They will also require WO, MWO, and majors from across the country.

 

[Kirkhill]

Moving Div HQs?

How silly.

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By the way.

The Expeditionary Division - shouldn't its HQ be familiar with being expedited?

 

[Kilted]

Yes but that comment (@PuckChaser) was a response to a comment (@Kilted) about moving two HQs wholes sale back and forth. So in that context your response reads as supporting whole sale moves, which is why I asked for clarity.

From my understanding based on this thread that is what will happen based on the repurposing and renumbering of the divisions.

When is this supposed to happen? (I'm assuming right before a Remembrance Day so the whole Army can try and figure out the new division patches at the same time).

 

[boredtoon]

From my understanding based on this thread that is what will happen based on the repurposing and renumbering of the divisions.

When is this supposed to happen? (I'm assuming right before a Remembrance Day so the whole Army can try and figure out the new division patches at the same time).

APS 26 according to the draft CAMO and MiD. The CCA selected what was termed as the "lightswitch COA", where the current divs all switch at APS 26, and then between APS 26 and APS 28 the brigades and units switch so that they are reporting to who they need to under the new structure.