Army Reserve Restructuring

[Brad Sallows]

We were so much cheaper then.

We're older than that now.

 

[boredtoon]

With the authorized since of the PRes increasing by 400%, I wonder if we are going to see any units come off the Supplementary Order of Battle? The 4th Princess Lousie Dragoon Guards in Ottawa would make some sense as the only armoured unit in 33 CBG is the Ontario Regiment in the GTA.

Nah. There are already multiple units in every major city that are well below doctrinal strength. It's far easier to just expand the existing ones than pull units off the Supp Orbat. The Brockville Rifles for example have a Trained Effective Strength of 36 according to a slide deck from September.

 

[MilEME09]

Nah. There are already multiple units in every major city that are well below doctrinal strength. It's far easier to just expand the existing ones than pull units off the Supp Orbat. The Brockville Rifles for example have a Trained Effective Strength of 36 according to a slide deck from September.

pretty much, I don't see the recently stood up D troop of 20th Field getting renamed "19th Medium Artillery Regiment, RCA" for example in Calgary, we need expansion of the current units, not creating new ones. Authorize every unit to full peacetime strength, and you will easily have room to absorb 100k+

 

[daftandbarmy]

Nah. There are already multiple units in every major city that are well below doctrinal strength. It's far easier to just expand the existing ones than pull units off the Supp Orbat. The Brockville Rifles for example have a Trained Effective Strength of 36 according to a slide deck from September.

I wonder how many of those are Cpl/Ptes

 

[MilEME09]

I wonder how many of those are Cpl/Ptes

probably not many, if you look and those side decks on reserve ES and TES, certain geo areas have a hard time attracting people, Manitoba and and sask for example have struggled for over a decade. Even my units own attempt to stand up a platoon in lethbridge AB has seen almost 0 growth.

 

[daftandbarmy]

probably not many, if you look and those side decks on reserve ES and TES, certain geo areas have a hard time attracting people, Manitoba and and sask for example have struggled for over a decade. Even my units own attempt to stand up a platoon in lethbridge AB has seen almost 0 growth.

Well, after all, the folks in the Crowsnest Pass call it 'Meth Bridge' so no surprise there

Actually, as I recall, it's a bustling little urban/rural centre so I find it surprising that the numbers don't add up. Their university is very popular too, so there shouldn't be a shortage of potential applicants.

Pincher Creek is next door too, which is not as big, but must have a few hundred eligible people.

 

[MilEME09]

Well, after all, the folks in the Crowsnest Pass call it 'Meth Bridge' so no surprise there

Actually, as I recall, it's a bustling little urban/rural centre so I find it surprising that the numbers don't add up. Their university is very popular too, so there shouldn't be a shortage of potential applicants.

Pincher Creek is next door too, which is not as big, but must have a few hundred eligible people.

Well when you have armour, and arty, if you don't have a good recruiting team, not many would want to play service battalion

 

[daftandbarmy]

Well when you have armour, and arty, if you don't have a good recruiting team, not many would want to play service battalion

Being Infantry, you would think I'd agree with you but I'm pretty sure our local Svc Bn mob 'out attracted' us on a regular basis...

 

[childs56]

Well when you have armour, and arty, if you don't have a good recruiting team, not many would want to play service battalion

A good recruiting team is what is needed.

 

[MilEME09]

Being Infantry, you would think I'd agree with you but I'm pretty sure our local Svc Bn mob 'out attracted' us on a regular basis...

and thats a great recruiting team then, currently we are getting a steady flow in calgary, but haven't seen a new member in lethbridge in about 12 months

 

[boredtoon]

I wonder how many of those are Cpl/Ptes

They have a PAT Pl of about 25 according to that same slide deck. The problem with a unit that small, even though its tactically grouped with another, the PWOR, is when you are that small, you just can't run the courses to grow. Not enough NCOs. So the unit gets stuck in a loop of creating 2-6 new trained troops per year whilst watching 2-6 trained pers release or retire.

 

[daftandbarmy]

They have a PAT Pl of about 25 according to that same slide deck. The problem with a unit that small, even though its tactically grouped with another, the PWOR, is when you are that small, you just can't run the courses to grow. Not enough NCOs. So the unit gets stuck in a loop of creating 2-6 new trained troops per year whilst watching 2-6 trained pers release or retire.

We used to get that depleted, from time to time, and had to team up with other units to run a combined course.

I’m guessing there aren’t even enough units in that area, with enough trainers, to do the job.

Good thing Bde HQ will be keen to jump in and help out!

 

[MilEME09]

We used to get that depleted, from time to time, and had to team up with other units to run a combined course.

I’m guessing there aren’t even enough units in that area, with enough trainers, to do the job.

Good thing Bde HQ will be keen to jump in and help out!

This is where brigade battle schools will help, as well as the RST season, in theory

 

[QV]

Optional additional training with PRes would include
-Driver wheel
-First Aid instructor
-Snowmobile/ATV driver
-RHIB Operator
-AIrfield/Armoury/Base security
-work with Canadian rangers
-Voluntary training with Pres as GDs

Just a start. It gives you an emergency service member that if needed, could be drawn in and given additional training to make a useful soldier/sailor/etc

I'd find more useful training. Almost any adult already has the skills/experience to do some of these.

The main effort should be to train them in things they don't already know. Presuming anyone with a driver licence can already operate any mil vehicle that only requires driver wheel - maybe 2 min intro at most (this is where the weird key goes if thats even still a thing).

 

[QV]

Having seen this not sure what to make of it COA, as a former NCO/WO that trained many a soldier (7 regular force DP1 Inf, 5 regular force SQs, 8 PRes DP1 Inf, 4 PRes Basics/recruit/whatever its called now), so I may would like to base my opinion on that experience.

Assuming this is serious and they want to have a ready force of "ready fighters", I would recommend my 2 weeks + distance learning package

Here we go. The MOSID is "Emergency Service Soldier"
-Distance Learning Package on internet (paid 6 x days Class A 6 hours+) to cover military knowledge, military ethos, service code of discipline, Harassment/don't be an asshole training, military history, Law of armed conflict
-First Aid (If qualified, full financial reimbursement) or sent to get their FA training, either on Fed dollars or reimbursed (There are so many places that conduct FA training)
-Emergency Service Soldier Qualification (12 Days) its either done as a 2 week course (with a day for travel on either end) or 2 x 6-day phases (2 x 1-week phases)

EMERGENCY SVC SOLDIER QUAL
Phase 1
Day 1-Admin Day Kit Issue, Kit instruction, Course briefings, Admin BS, etc
Day 2-4 x Hours extremely basic drill, 6 x Hours C7 (or C8) Training
Day 3-10 Hours C7 or C8 or whatever Service Weapon Training
Day 4-6 Hours C7/C8 Training, 2 Hours C7/C8 Handling Test
Day 5-Range Day (Work on Zeroing and Grouping), focus on shooting at 100m and maybe 200m Prone only
Day 6-Grenade Range. Take them there, quick introduction and throw 2 x grenades (Can be done with minimal training, I have been a bay NCO many times and RSO'd grenade ranges)
Phase 2 (week 2 if doing continuous)
Day 7-Communications Training
Day 8-Deploy to Field, Field Living and the most basic fieldcraft
Day 9-Pyro safety, Introduction Explosives threat, Redeploy from field
Day 10-9mm Pistol Training
Day 11-Ranges-Intro fire Pistol
Day 12-Duties of sentry, range cards, challenge procedure, casualty evacuation, PW/detainee drills

I would offer up mandatory refresher training cycles (2 weekends per year) to be done at your local PRes, Div Trg Center, CMBG, etc)

Optional additional training with PRes would include
-Driver wheel
-First Aid instructor
-Snowmobile/ATV driver
-RHIB Operator
-AIrfield/Armoury/Base security
-work with Canadian rangers
-Voluntary training with Pres as GDs

Just a start. It gives you an emergency service member that if needed, could be drawn in and given additional training to make a useful soldier/sailor/etc

How many people on a course and how many courses could realistically be ran per year given existing instructor availability and facility requirements? What numbers of qualified people could be achieved in 1 year? Curious to know what is the realm of the possible on this...

Retired NCOs/Off could perhaps be contracted out to run this basic curriculum... some enterprising retired individual is getting a business license as we speak...

What is the max trainee vs min instr load? Could it look like this?

Course load: 30 (15 on firing line at a time, remainder observing/helping)

Rifle range staff: 4
Days 1-6

Other mil trg staff: 2
Days 7-9, 12
(Scrub pistol altogether, or offer 2 hr famil and hope they don't need to touch one)

Second serial of 30 starts when first serial moves to other mil training. So 6 people can train 120 people in a month.

120 people trained a month x 10 months = 1200/yr per site
x 4 training sites (not sure what's reasonable/achievable)

4800/year
Scales up with more sites/serials.

Very rudimentary, I know, and ignores all the admin/support behind the scenes...

 

[Kirkhill]

Well, after all, the folks in the Crowsnest Pass call it 'Meth Bridge' so no surprise there

Actually, as I recall, it's a bustling little urban/rural centre so I find it surprising that the numbers don't add up. Their university is very popular too, so there shouldn't be a shortage of potential applicants.

Pincher Creek is next door too, which is not as big, but must have a few hundred eligible people.

Lethbridge

25% Mormon
25% Mennonite
25% Blackfoot
25% Separatist

 

[RangerRay]

Well when you have armour, and arty, if you don't have a good recruiting team, not many would want to play service battalion

Wait, Lethbridge has armour, artillery and service battalion?

 

[ArmyRick]

How many people on a course and how many courses could realistically be ran per year given existing instructor availability and facility requirements? What numbers of qualified people could be achieved in 1 year? Curious to know what is the realm of the possible on this...

Retired NCOs/Off could perhaps be contracted out to run this basic curriculum... some enterprising retired individual is getting a business license as we speak...

What is the max trainee vs min instr load? Could it look like this?

Course load: 30 (15 on firing line at a time, remainder observing/helping)

Rifle range staff: 4
Days 1-6

Other mil trg staff: 2
Days 7-9, 12
(Scrub pistol altogether, or offer 2 hr famil and hope they don't need to touch one)

Second serial of 30 starts when first serial moves to other mil training. So 6 people can train 120 people in a month.

120 people trained a month x 10 months = 1200/yr per site
x 4 training sites (not sure what's reasonable/achievable)

4800/year
Scales up with more sites/serials.

Very rudimentary, I know, and ignores all the admin/support behind the scenes...

Have thought about it.

My thoughts, don't run too many of these in the summer (during PRes peak trg periods) . If the army is able and willing
-In the interim, use the DIV TRG centres. I know I hear some of my co-workers at Meaford groaning, but as one retiring sergeant said to me "I don't get a knife hand from you again" (Its one of my many students I trained back in the early 2000s). So chop, chop, lets dedicate 3-4 2 x week training cycles a year at each TC. The more staff you can throw at this that are capable, the more we can stand up. It also needs a thorough explanation that it will be similar to training Rangers and CIC officers, don't be putting them in the push up position for 20 minutes or have them mark time forever because you found carbon on the bottom of the magazine.
-I believe there is a plan to grow the P Res? As more P Res become available, slip a few of them on short term class B to get PM MC 300,000 sooner rather than later.
-Hire on 6 month contracts (to kick start) retired NCOs and WOs for small arms instruction and running of ranges, thats all they do. That would be jammy (no marching NCOs, no field, no inspections, etc).

Also, have the FORCE test be a performance incentive, pass your FORCE test each year, and recieve 2 x days class A pays compensation or something similar

How much political will, will dictate the success of this. Both from politicians and the CoC (lets not kid ourselves, army politics is a real thing, had lengthy conversations with an old engineer friend who is a corporal and a WO I trained as a troopy).

 

[Kirkhill]

Wait, Lethbridge has armour, artillery and service battalion?

An independent battery and a troop of Sally Horse.

 

[Kirkhill]

Have thought about it.

My thoughts, don't run too many of these in the summer (during PRes peak trg periods) . If the army is able and willing
-In the interim, use the DIV TRG centres. I know I hear some of my co-workers at Meaford groaning, but as one retiring sergeant said to me "I don't get a knife hand from you again" (Its one of my many students I trained back in the early 2000s). So chop, chop, lets dedicate 3-4 2 x week training cycles a year at each TC. The more staff you can throw at this that are capable, the more we can stand up. It also needs a thorough explanation that it will be similar to training Rangers and CIC officers, don't be putting them in the push up position for 20 minutes or have them mark time forever because you found carbon on the bottom of the magazine.
-I believe there is a plan to grow the P Res? As more P Res become available, slip a few of them on short term class B to get PM MC 300,000 sooner rather than later.
-Hire on 6 month contracts (to kick start) retired NCOs and WOs for small arms instruction and running of ranges, thats all they do. That would be jammy (no marching NCOs, no field, no inspections, etc).

Also, have the FORCE test be a performance incentive, pass your FORCE test each year, and recieve 2 x days class A pays compensation or something similar

How much political will, will dictate the success of this. Both from politicians and the CoC (lets not kid ourselves, army politics is a real thing, had lengthy conversations with an old engineer friend who is a corporal and a WO I trained as a troopy).

The key is to grab a hold of those that are interested and encourage them. Make them want to learn more.

Long time passing my instructors included two brothers. The older one was a Regimental Asshole. The youger one was a great mentor.