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Army Reserve Restructuring

I don't know about those countries, but if you think the Reserves are unprofessional now, wait until you add every teenager in there. It'll be awful.
I found the Regs generally acted less professional than the Reserves did. Mainly because many in the Reserves were trying to compensate and act how they thought they should.

I also found the most unprofessional people in the military were usually the more senior ranks. Jr ranks might do dumb stuff but generally they were acting as they should because they were afraid of being yelled at, given extra tasks, etc. well the more senior people who knew better generally didn’t because no one would hold them to task when they were unprofessional.

Can’t tell you the amount of lectures I sat in where the jr ranks were silent and the sgts/wos were just chirping away to each other.
 
It's common sense that if you slacken restrictions, or make people join the military when they don't want to, professionalism will go down.
Do you remember your highschool class? Would you want them to handle weapons? how would they fair in an inspection?
There's people when I went to highschool who are illiterate, people who are very out of shape, etc. etc. If we were to have more people go through training, we'd have to lower the quality or "harshness" of the training...
People talk bad about the reserves saying that if there would be a real war, we wouldn't know if they'd actually be effective, this would be a level lower!

That is a problem with the Canadian system of raising children in the modern era. It wasn't always thus and in many countries it still isn't thus.

There is no difference in the feedstock of countries with kids that make their beds, do well in school and accept discipline and thse that don't.
 
I don't know about those countries, but if you think the Reserves are unprofessional now, wait until you add every teenager in there. It'll be awful.
It's common sense that if you slacken restrictions, or make people join the military when they don't want to, professionalism will go down.
Do you remember your highschool class? Would you want them to handle weapons? how would they fair in an inspection?
There's people when I went to highschool who are illiterate, people who are very out of shape, etc. etc. If we were to have more people go through training, we'd have to lower the quality or "harshness" of the training...
People talk bad about the reserves saying that if there would be a real war, we wouldn't know if they'd actually be effective, this would be a level lower!

Though Canada has no tradition of conscription (but the times we used it, the negatives were primarily political), there are still plenty around (mostly old farts like myself, but a few who are still serving) who served alongside NATO allies whose forces were conscripted. Others may have differing opinions, but I don't recall any experience where I thought that the terms of their enlistment made them any less proficient than one from an all volunteer military. Oh yes, I do remember one incident when I questioned the professional capacity of allied soldiers sailors - that was in a US Navy (all volunteer) LPD in 1979; not only did it seem that they didn't know the simplest skills, but obvious drug use made them unfit for duty.

During the waning days of the Cold War, I had the opportunity to work with German, French, Dutch, British, and American forces among others. The first three were conscript armies. Though most of my interactions were with officers and SNCOs (mostly professional, career pers), I did observe junior soldiers (i.e., conscripts). They may have not wanted to be there (though a lot probably did - in some conscript militaries the only way to join is by conscription - they select the professional NCOs and officers from the best of the bunch), but invariably they knew their jobs and did them proficiently. And in those European militaries, that's where their Reserves came from. They did their obligatory full-time military service and then had to go into the Reserves.
 
Though Canada has no tradition of conscription (but the times we used it, the negatives were primarily political), there are still plenty around (mostly old farts like myself, but a few who are still serving) who served alongside NATO allies whose forces were conscripted. Others may have differing opinions, but I don't recall any experience where I thought that the terms of their enlistment made them any less proficient than one from an all volunteer military. Oh yes, I do remember one incident when I questioned the professional capacity of allied soldiers sailors - that was in a US Navy (all volunteer) LPD in 1979; not only did it seem that they didn't know the simplest skills, but obvious drug use made them unfit for duty.

During the waning days of the Cold War, I had the opportunity to work with German, French, Dutch, British, and American forces among others. The first three were conscript armies. Though most of my interactions were with officers and SNCOs (mostly professional, career pers), I did observe junior soldiers (i.e., conscripts). They may have not wanted to be there (though a lot probably did - in some conscript militaries the only way to join is by conscription - they select the professional NCOs and officers from the best of the bunch), but invariably they knew their jobs and did them proficiently. And in those European militaries, that's where their Reserves came from. They did their obligatory full-time military service and then had to go into the Reserves.

From my experience, the Continental system's main effort was for the (mandatory) periods of full time service to feed and develop a much, much larger Reserve Force. A short term of regular service is enough to get 90% of the troops up to the standard required on mobilization, especially if there's annual continuation training.

It's pretty much the other way around in the 'Expeditionary System' we have inherited from the British.

To change that culture/ system would represent the most difficult transformation the CAF has led since WW2, probably...
 
Though Canada has no tradition of conscription (but the times we used it, the negatives were primarily political), there are still plenty around (mostly old farts like myself, but a few who are still serving) who served alongside NATO allies whose forces were conscripted. Others may have differing opinions, but I don't recall any experience where I thought that the terms of their enlistment made them any less proficient than one from an all volunteer military. Oh yes, I do remember one incident when I questioned the professional capacity of allied soldiers sailors - that was in a US Navy (all volunteer) LPD in 1979; not only did it seem that they didn't know the simplest skills, but obvious drug use made them unfit for duty.

During the waning days of the Cold War, I had the opportunity to work with German, French, Dutch, British, and American forces among others. The first three were conscript armies. Though most of my interactions were with officers and SNCOs (mostly professional, career pers), I did observe junior soldiers (i.e., conscripts). They may have not wanted to be there (though a lot probably did - in some conscript militaries the only way to join is by conscription - they select the professional NCOs and officers from the best of the bunch), but invariably they knew their jobs and did them proficiently. And in those European militaries, that's where their Reserves came from. They did their obligatory full-time military service and then had to go into the Reserves.
Conscript doesn’t equal dumb or incompetent.

If anything it is likely to up the quality of recruits we receive as currently most your best and brightest choose not to serve or decide against it due to how long the process is.

Being a volunteer is a choice, but it doesn’t mean you are competent or capable, it just means you want to do it.
 
From my experience, the Continental system's main effort was for the (mandatory) periods of full time service to feed and develop a much, much larger Reserve Force. A short term of regular service is enough to get 90% of the troops up to the standard required on mobilization, especially if there's annual continuation training.

It's pretty much the other way around in the 'Expeditionary System' we have inherited from the British.

To change that culture/ system would represent the most difficult transformation the CAF has led since WW2, probably...

The Brits ran National Service until 1960 with the last National Servicemen being released in 1963 having served in WW2, post war India, Dutch East Indies, Greece, Palestine, Libya, Cyprus, Egypt, Borneo, Malaya, Kenya and multiple other places that the sun never set. Famously that included Michael Caine as a Fusilier in Korea and Sean Connery as an Able Seaman anti-aircraft gunner on HMS Formidable before he turned 19.

The Aussies only gave up their National Service in 1972 when Viet Nam became unpopular.

Britain has often had reason to call up the Fyrd since Alfred organized his Anti-Dane Burgs and navy.

It doesn't really matter what the weapons or skills are. The organization matters. Weapons and skills can be taught to meet the demands of the times.
 
This is why im i am a fan of the Swiss model of national service, it aint just the military any more, the add things like life guards, nursing homes etc. Then you get the ones who would want the military there.
Maybe I'm lost, but why would the military pay for life guards?
 
Who says all forms of "National Service" would need to come out of the DND budget?
I guess it could be from other places, but still, I think there's enough projects in Canada, and I think we shouldn't spend millions of dollars to get people to become lifeguards...
 
I guess it could be from other places, but still, I think there's enough projects in Canada, and I think we shouldn't spend millions of dollars to get people to become lifeguards...

If you have national service what do you do with conscientious objectors? Well for some that means they do necessary civil work. Ie life guards, hospital orderlies, etc. Your tax dollars already pay for those life guards what's the difference?
 
During the waning days of the Cold War, I had the opportunity to work with German, French, Dutch, British, and American forces among others
My experiences were with both German and Italian army draftees and in general were quite positive. Italians even created sergeants and 2nd lieutenants from their draftee intake leaving a very small pool of officers and senior NCOs in the regiment to be "professional" soldiers.

🍻
 
I guess it could be from other places, but still, I think there's enough projects in Canada, and I think we shouldn't spend millions of dollars to get people to become lifeguards...

We do spend millions of dollars to become lifeguards.

I did a quick pass to try and determine how many Canadians were in uniform serving the public, including EMS, Firefighters, Peace Officers, LEOs, PSCs and volunteers galore.

I gave up.

My best estimate is well over 1,000,000 perhaps approaching 2,000,000.

And no central co-ordination.

Feds, Provinces, Municipalities, Territories, Reserves.
Departments at all levels.
Well meaning citizens doing their bit
Some paid
Some volunteers
Some full time
Some part time

All of them contributing some sort of National Service.

None of them talking to each other. (Hyperbole for effect).
 
If you have national service what do you do with conscientious objectors? Well for some that means they do necessary civil work. Ie life guards, hospital orderlies, etc. Your tax dollars already pay for those life guards what's the difference?

It's pretty difficult to prove that you're a 'Conchie', and they're quite a small percentage of those 'LOB' anyways apparently.

And if you manage to convince the authorities, you're probably going to be shamed, shunned and shuffled off to be used for other defence work or slave labour..

 
It's pretty difficult to prove that you're a 'Conchie', and they're quite a small percentage of those 'LOB' anyways apparently.

And if you manage to convince the authorities, you're probably going to be shamed, shunned and shuffled off to be used for other defence work or slave labour..

My point was ze Germans had a better system to get some value out of people who objected to mikitary service.
 
Pay sheets are a part of the larger pay process. Until relatively recently, DND's financial authorities were loathe to embrace electronic signatures.

Updating the pay system - including replacement of both obsolete pay systems in use in the CAF - is a priority. But it has to be done right - implementing IRPPS in the mid 90s and Phoenix in the PS a decade ago both demonstrated how easy it is to completely, unreservedly fuck up pay.
oops, I mean IRPPS. Loved when they brought it online. Nothing like telling a bunch of CFR Capts that they now owe $50k plus as they were paid as MWOs and the system says they were Sgtrs/WOs so overpaid.
Do they still have to march up to the table, come to attention and get handed a cheque for 99c?
That's why cash parades were better, didn't deal in change so never had 99c pays. Trying to remember but I think our minimum was $20.
No. That would be an improvement IMHO ;)

They can still fuck up your pay so badly that, at no notice, you'll be require to repay several hundred dollars
Yep and the member should have picked up that they were overpaid and not spent it. My over payment was paid right away with no issue. Sgt I helped out also had has paid right away. If you are not tracking your pay properly then you share the blame. Always was funny how the only people that picked up a pay issue were the ones that thought they were underpaid.

After I saw the guy get a 99c cheque, someone told us a story about someone getting a cheque for $0.01. He decided to frame it and put it on his wall. Fast forward a few months later and the MPs were at his door telling him to cash that cheque because it was messing up the unit’s pay system. 🤣
Was that in Halifax? Got a call from Ottawa once about that exact thing demanding a member be contacted and ordered to cash the cheque right of way as it was still showing on their books. Seems DND didn't like showing an outstanding cash document.
There was actually a civvy OR person at my unit. I don't know if they're supposed to do that, but it happens.
Depending on when and the unit. At one time many units had them. 2012 a lot were lost with the pres re-org but some still managed to keep one. I think it was 2019 that there was still one at MPA in Toronto.
My personal philosophy is if you’re old enough to legally kill someone, you’re old enough to drink (and vote for that matter).
For us it was - if you are old enough to serve you are old enough to drink. Inspectors didn't even visit the base at the time. Something happened though as a couple years later it changed.
If you have national service what do you do with conscientious objectors? Well for some that means they do necessary civil work. Ie life guards, hospital orderlies, etc. Your tax dollars already pay for those life guards what's the difference?
As I recall there was an interesting story about conscientious objectors. The detail I recall is that it was found most were only objectors up to the point that rounds started coming in at them, then all of a sudden they were all in with firing back.
 
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