Army Reserve Restructuring

[daftandbarmy]

Weekends.
3hrs is never 3hrs on an evening.
I know when I was a reservist that at least 30min was wasted in signing in and then nominal roll parade.

And weapons draw... and return...

 

[Ostrozac]

100+ buildings need to be replaced, lets just ball park 50 million min for each for land and construction. Thats a spicy bill

Double that, at least. The Voltigeurs de Quebec Armoury project was $104 million, and the land didn’t need to be acquired.

 

[Kirkhill]

Weekends.
3hrs is never 3hrs on an evening.
I know when I was a reservist that at least 30min was wasted in signing in and then nominal roll parade.

Going back to the mists of time at Mewata most of those showing up arrived around 6 PM and left around 11 or 12.

Weapons were seldom drawn on week nights. Classes ran from 7 PM to 9 PM. BOR and stores stayed open longer.

 

[KevinB]

Going back to the mists of time at Mewata most of those showing up arrived around 6 PM and left around 11 or 12.

I think you may be remembering more nostalgia than reality.

Weapons were seldom drawn on week nights. Classes ran from 7 PM to 9 PM. BOR and stores stayed open longer.

That’s 2hrs

The ARNG do virtually nothing on weeknights.
They use training days on weekends, or blocks of active duty.

 

[Kirkhill]

I think you may be remembering more nostalgia than reality.

That’s 2hrs

The ARNG do virtually nothing on weeknights.
They use training days on weekends, or blocks of active duty.

There was a third hour of admin and preps for the weekend.

 

[Kilted]

Weekends.
3hrs is never 3hrs on an evening.
I know when I was a reservist that at least 30min was wasted in signing in and then nominal roll parade.

Are you suggesting doing two weekends a month as opposed to one weekend and parade nights like some remote regiments do it?

That is good in theory, but there are a number of issues with it. First of all, this isn't as bad as it used to be, but the assumption that the reserves still seems to have that everyone works a Monday to Friday 9-5 job, which is very much untrue. It also comes down to there being a finite number of weekends in the training year. Once you take away 8-10 weekend ex's, Remembrance Day and other random tasks that units have to send people to, you don't have that many weekends left. Plus throw in holidays.

It's already bad enough for the people working weekend courses that depending if they fall on different weekends from unit ex's and their civilian employment, they could end up working for a couple months straight without a day off. Add two nights a week in there and you wonder why we lose so many people in the MCpl to Sgt range.

 

[KevinB]

Are you suggesting doing two weekends a month as opposed to one weekend and parade nights like some remote regiments do it?

That is good in theory, but there are a number of issues with it. First of all, this isn't as bad as it used to be, but the assumption that the reserves still seems to have that everyone works a Monday to Friday 9-5 job, which is very much untrue. It also comes down to there being a finite number of weekends in the training year. Once you take away 8-10 weekend ex's, Remembrance Day and other random tasks that units have to send people to, you don't have that many weekends left. Plus throw in holidays.

It's already bad enough for the people working weekend courses that depending if they fall on different weekends from unit ex's and their civilian employment, they could end up working for a couple months straight without a day off. Add two nights a week in there and you wonder why we lose so many people in the MCpl to Sgt range.

I’m suggesting that the evening ‘training’ nights are just a waste of time for anything but social interaction.

The goal of the PRes should be to have effective units, not provide people with a weekly drinking club. Right now the CA doesn’t get its money out of the vast majority of reservists, and hasn’t for years.

Summer block training should be a mandatory 3 weeks.
Of course that would need job protection legislation.

Additionally there should be much easier ways for reservists to take reg force courses, as well as employ reservists with Reg units if the individual reservists have time to dedicate.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I’m suggesting that the evening ‘training’ nights are just a waste of time for anything but social interaction.

The goal of the PRes should be to have effective units, not provide people with a weekly drinking club. Right now the CA doesn’t get its money out of the vast majority of reservists, and hasn’t for years.

Summer block training should be a mandatory 3 weeks.
Of course that would need job protection legislation.

Additionally there should be much easier ways for reservists to take reg force courses, as well as employ reservists with Reg units if the individual reservists have time to dedicate.

What does the US do with its equivalent to our ARes ?

Do they do the whole 1 evening a week, 1 weekend a month thing ?

 

[markppcli]

And when do you think would be a better time for training?

Weekends. One weekend a month is double the training time of four parade nights at the same cost to the army and less transit time for the member. Ack your concerns about courses essentially being every weekend but how is that different from now? What is a viable solution?

 

[MilEME09]

I’m suggesting that the evening ‘training’ nights are just a waste of time for anything but social interaction.

The goal of the PRes should be to have effective units, not provide people with a weekly drinking club. Right now the CA doesn’t get its money out of the vast majority of reservists, and hasn’t for years.

Summer block training should be a mandatory 3 weeks.
Of course that would need job protection legislation.

Additionally there should be much easier ways for reservists to take reg force courses, as well as employ reservists with Reg units if the individual reservists have time to dedicate.

Good thing my unit doesnt have a mess, cant be a drinking club without a bar. Speaking for my own unit, once IBTS is done, wednesday night and weekends is pure trades training. Vehicle techs turn wrenches, wpns does vault inspections or pending repairs. MSE might go on a road move, cooks meal plan etc

 

[KevinB]

What does the US do with its equivalent to our ARes ?

Do they do the whole 1 evening a week, 1 weekend a month thing ?

The closest affiliate would be the ARNG.
Which runs a 1 weekend/month (Friday evening to Sunday evening) and 2 weeks a year schedule.
Basically 39 days a year

Edit: Some units are now on a 64 day / year - but this appears to be a voluntary aspect (folks choosing to move into a higher readiness unit).

 

[daftandbarmy]

I’m suggesting that the evening ‘training’ nights are just a waste of time for anything but social interaction.

The goal of the PRes should be to have effective units, not provide people with a weekly drinking club. Right now the CA doesn’t get its money out of the vast majority of reservists, and hasn’t for years.

Summer block training should be a mandatory 3 weeks.
Of course that would need job protection legislation.

Additionally there should be much easier ways for reservists to take reg force courses, as well as employ reservists with Reg units if the individual reservists have time to dedicate.

Over the years I've seen both systems tried.

YMMV but because our main source of troops (70% or so) comes from students, a famously shiftless lot, the 'weekends only' approach was definitely sub-standard IMHO.

Keeping in touch with as many troops as possible, on a weekly basis, was a far more effective way of keeping them engaged during probably one of the most personally disruptive phases of their lives.

A monthly schedule means that if a solider misses the once per month training event, for whatever reason, you might not see them for two months or more. And then they just start to drift away and go NES.

 

[markppcli]

Over the years I've seen both systems tried.

YMMV but because our main source of troops (70% or so) comes from students, a famously shiftless lot, the 'weekends only' approach was definitely sub-standard IMHO.

Keeping in touch with as many troops as possible, on a weekly basis, was a far more effective way of keeping them engaged during probably one of the most personally disruptive phases of their lives.

A monthly schedule means that if a solider misses the once per month training event, for whatever reason, you might not see them for two months or more. And then they just start to drift away and go NES.

I think we come back to the compelled to train / voluntary training issue in our monthly reserves restructure debate, and thats the crux of it. If the reserves is a "show up if so inclined so a period that suits you" approach then im not sure serious reform is actually worth it.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Do we need weekly or monthly training?

Why not just send people on courses until they hit OFP then afterwards courses become optional.

Have 1 month mandatory training in the summer, time guaranteed off. Before the month they have DLN courses to take during the year to deal with most the lessons.

Then for the month have it broken up something like a week of classroom time for the lessons/refreshers that need to be done in person, a week of practicing the trade/fieldcraft/range qual, etc. then two week exercise at the end.

This could be largely decentralized not requiring a geographically based unit only needing a internet connection. Reduced costs because you can centralize equipment as the troops will come to it, plus you no longer need armouries across the country as you would no longer require a geographical unit to be the ‘home’.

Likely end up with better trained more cohesive units this way than our current spread out maybe show up method. Imagine actually leading full strength reserve units in the field instead of a section to platoon showing up.

 

[Harris]

I think we come back to the compelled to train / voluntary training issue in our monthly reserves restructure debate, and thats the crux of it. If the reserves is a "show up if so inclined so a period that suits you" approach then im not sure serious reform is actually worth it.

That is the crux. According to the Army G1 shop we have 22,570 reservists of which only 10,325 are trained effective strength. That's only 45%. The problem I see is no one wants to enforce a trg standard because the numbers will drop. A high non-trained number total is better then a low trained total one.

 

[mariomike]

Have 1 month mandatory training in the summer, time guaranteed off.

The Policy in our collective agreement was / is ,

Employees can take a leave of absence with pay, for the two week period of absence, to attend the Canadian Armed Forces Reserve Training Program.

Employees are paid their regular pay provided they submit any compensation received for military service to the city treasurer, unless this compensation is paid for days they are not scheduled to work.

Compensation received for travelling expenses and meal allowance does not have to be returned to the city.

All benefits continue during the leave.

An employee’s service is not affected by the leave. An employee’s vacation entitlement, and pension credit do not change.

I joined the PRes when I was 16, so was available for a lot of training before hiring on with my full-time employer.

Continuation of pay and benefits was important .

Possibly worth considering is if you are injured as a Reservist, how would that compare financially with an injury on your full-time job.

One thing I recall , as vacation was booked by seniority , where I worked , only the most senior employees could bid summer vacation. And ,I was not one of them.

No matter what, the car count could not be compromised.

So, taking Military Leave meant someone senior to you - maybe your partner - would not be getting their vacation pick. And they let you know it!

If that was not enough time off, they , now , have this ,

Reservist leave | Your guide to the Employment Standards Act

Know your rights and obligations under the Employment Standards Act (ESA). This guide describes the rules about minimum wage, hours of work limits, termination of employment, public holidays, pregnancy and parental leave, severance pay, vacation and more.

www.ontario.ca

 

[dapaterson]

That is the crux. According to the Army G1 shop we have 22,570 reservists of which only 10,325 are trained effective strength. That's only 45%. The problem I see is no one wants to enforce a trg standard because the numbers will drop. A high non-trained number total is better then a low trained total one.

Strong disagree. The CAF needs adequate training capacity to avoid PAT brigades.

For the Res F it also requires occupational design to per.ot skills acquisition and, more critically, maintenance within the time available.

If it takes six years to reach OFP, and then those skills can't be routinely practiced, the system has failed.

 

[Kilted]

Good thing my unit doesnt have a mess, cant be a drinking club without a bar. Speaking for my own unit, once IBTS is done, wednesday night and weekends is pure trades training. Vehicle techs turn wrenches, wpns does vault inspections or pending repairs. MSE might go on a road move, cooks meal plan etc

Like the rest of society, mess culture has changed where there are far fewer of the new people who don't drink or drink less, plus many messes now have reduced hours due to C-o-C wanting to limit their liability. Many newer troops don't go to the mess very often unless they are required to. Long gone are the days when we were essentially forced by our own peers to stay in the mess till 2am every parade night.

 

[MilEME09]

Like the rest of society, mess culture has changed where there are far fewer of the new people who don't drink or drink less, plus many messes now have reduced hours due to C-o-C wanting to limit their liability. Many newer troops don't go to the mess very often unless they are required to. Long gone are the days when we were essentially forced by our own peers to stay in the mess till 2am every parade night.

Calgary mess is at Mewata, so units are currie rarely go. They are trying new ideas to get people to come out but it aint what it wss ten years ago

 

[markppcli]

Strong disagree. The CAF needs adequate training capacity to avoid PAT brigades.

For the Res F it also requires occupational design to per.ot skills acquisition and, more critically, maintenance within the time available.

If it takes six years to reach OFP, and then those skills can't be routinely practiced, the system has failed.

I think they meant from the perspective of the reserve units it is currently preferred.