Aviation Systems Technician ( AVN Tech )

[bison33]

No........never an AVS tech....I was an AVN tech but now a Flight Engineer. As for a lab type workplace, depends on where you'd end up. Somewhere like Cold Lake would have AVS labs....a small unit, most likely not. And as a new guy, you'd end up in a servicing/snags enviroment first....but you'd do rotations through different sections as part of your training. As for having the cushy day job, like AVS labs, you could end up doing a year up to a few years in that role. All depends where you'd end up.

As for high tech, depends on what you consider high tech. A shiny glass cockpit or composite prop blades. Both trades require to use your noggin for troubleshooting but AVN is more demanding physically(also the busier of the two more of the time) and both are getting more high tech, though AVS is still traditionally, the more high tech of the two.  If I were a recruiter and with your background, I'd lean you more to AVS than AVN....after offering you any navy trade   Saying that now........interested in running up fixed wing planes, getting dirty ripping out landing gear and so on....or more the keep clean, change a box type? AVS for the latter and AVN for the former.

And when you see a recruiter, be firm in your choices...don't let them sell you on the "go infantry/navy then you can always apply for a trade reassigment down the road" line. You may have to wait longer for your choices but call the bluff. This applies if you only want AVN/AVS and nothing else interests you. Gotta run for now..........anything else, ask away.

 

[superhawk]

Thanks again. Your insight solidified my initial perspective on both trades as for FE I know you can only re-muster into that trade via AVN.
I recently spoke to my recruiter he tells me that sometimes AVN techs do the job of a AVS and vice versa is this valid or a sales pitch, and is there such thing as an electrical specialized AVN tech? meaning working more on electrical than mechanical.
In terms of all gse equipment am I right in assuming that AVN tech also do all repairs.(Ground Support Equipment), i.e cargo loaders, H.V.A.C. units, generators e.t.c.
Talk to you soon.Cheers.

 

[cp140tech]

The only fleet I have experience on is the CP 140/A.  I'm AVN, I've spent a few years in a 2nd/3rd line shop environment, I've been working on the propulsion side of the trade in 1st line for the last year and a half.  

 
 Bison33 has it right on the mark, it really depends on the type of work that you are most interested in.  AVS techs don't spend a lot of time doing repair work.  Their systems on this aircraft are complicated, with new upgrades coming down the pipe.  When they get snags, it generally results in swapping out a box and running a functional... some functionals are several hours.  The guys in labs here rip boxes apart and do some fairly detailed work I am told, but being AVN I've never spent any time up there.  The joke is that they are paid for what they know, not what they do.  The learning curve on this aircraft for them seems to be fairly steep, with some pretty bright young guys taking several years before they become proficient.  Most AVS here seem to need a good 5 years or so before they become go-to guys.  AVS techs here are split into Tactical and Navigation specialties, some switch sides after a few years in one area.

 The AVN side generally involves a lot more 'work'.  Getting your hands dirty, hydraulic fluid, fuel, all that good stuff.  The one thing that we are losing is real electrical troubleshooting ability, few guys are good at it... many shy away when you pull out the big wiring diagrams.  There is no shortage of complexity for you on this airframe is that's what you're looking for.  We still handle power generation and the electrical systems that control the engines, prop etc.  AVN streams into Flight Systems or Propulsion specialties here.  If you're interested in career progression, give some consideration to the AVN side, with a strong background in electrical, it would be easy for you to shine once you get to a squadron.    Either way, I think you'll really enjoy yourself.

  I have never been asked to help out AVS techs, except for basic stuff while deployed...  their jobs aren't labour intensive.  As for AVS helping with AVN tasks, very uncommon.  We sometimes bring one out to sit left seat for a ground run, or while deployed they lend a hand...  but that's about it for this squadron anyway.  As for AMSE and other ground support equipment, vehicle techs do the servicing and repair of those here, with one or two reserve AVN techs helping out a few days a month.  I can't say if that's forces wide.

  Any specific questions, feel free to PM me, I'll help you where I can.

 

[JDMCRX]

I was a AVN for 2 years liked it but was going to get posted to cold lake. AVS is a good trade too but from all my friends your just a parts changer??

 

[aesop081]

I was a AVN for 2 years liked it but was going to get posted to cold lake. AVS is a good trade too but from all my friends your just a parts changer??

:

Well...its takes alot of work and a strong head on your shoulders......sometimes a few hours of trying things out in order to figure out what part to change.  You never worked on a CP-140's tactical systems have you ?

 

[cp140tech]

I was a AVN for 2 years liked it but was going to get posted to cold lake. AVS is a good trade too but from all my friends your just a parts changer??

  We're all just parts changers.... anybody can swap parts, it's finding and changing the right parts that requires talent.

 

[superhawk]

Am greatfull for all input into this subject matter from all parties. Thanks.
What can one expect to do on his first year of ojt as a AVN tech?Heard that there is a log book that has to get filled out; qualified; on all aspects of the trade, is that valid?

 

[cp140tech]

I'm not sure if the new guys are still getting apprentice log books to fill out or not.  There used to be a blue book where you recorded tasks that you had performed, everybody spent 18-24 months on an apprentice rotation.  After completion of which you would be loaded on a type course.

  The new folks here in Greenwood are all being placed into a technical training flight.  Once there, they all receive the same standard of instruction in servicing and elementary type tasks.  After a few months in TTF, they are placed on a type course.  Under this new system, new techs are trained and able to sign 'rectified by' for the work they perform much more quickly than before; average time seems to be well under a year.  On the surface it seems to be an improvement, time will tell once we see how the new folks pan out on the flight line.

  The new AVS guys have a similar system, but it seems to be taking longer to get them through the training system here, I'm not sure why.

  I have no idea what other wings have in place for the new techs.

 

[aesop081]

  The new AVS guys have a similar system, but it seems to be taking longer to get them through the training system here, I'm not sure why.

Losing the IAT ( intergrated avionics trainer) in the Hornell center while AIMP block III is being installed probably has somehting to do with it.

 

[SnakeTech]

As an AVS Tech, I feel that I need to dispel a few myths.  I was originally a CRS Tech so that is where my back ground is. 

First, FE’s, which I have many as friends, are jack’s of both trades but masters of none.  Even though it is not public, the FE trade is now open to AVS Tech.  As an AVS Tech to go FE all you need is a waver from your unit FE Lead. The first AVS Tech to go FE is up in Yellowknife on the Twin Otter.

Second, being called a taterhead is a new one for me.  Fraggle or Gashie is what I’m used to  , Greasy Paw  .

Third, as for being a clean trade, that depends on the aircraft that you work on.  As an AVS Tech on the Buff (CC115), we routinely help out on everything from engine changes to brake changes.  Here it is not uncommon for AVS to be qualified to do AVN A, B, AB and PI. 

And lastly, we only get to watch Star Trek when the AVN’s aren’t watching NASCAR.

But serially, AVN or AVS, you can’t go wrong.  They are both good trades, but the work is only as good as you make it and the people that work with you.

 

[bison33]

Hahahahahha......come on snake, nascar?.......AVN are too busy to watch TV But superhawk, snake is right about cross quals....even on bigger airframes, AVS can get qualified AVN checks and vice versa. And my clean trade comment, well, I won't retract it but in my last Sqn before I remustered, we had some fraggles who would come help us do engine changes, etc.....more to keep busy than anything else.

On a side note.....the AVS guys who are FE's were formerly IE techs who went AVS. No die hard AVS in the FE trade yet but it will change next year and no waiver required. Will be interesting to see how many die hard AVS apply as the basic FE course will be made longer.  Snake, the guy in 440, we were on our basic FE together.

Either trade is good. You do have a tough choice to make.

 

[superhawk]

How long is the exisiting FE course and by how much will it be extended?
Okay, so FE is Flight engineer, would love to know what IE is.
As you all have witnessed the times of change in respect to trade content and taskings does anyone forsee in the future a possibility of AVN techs taking certain specialty trainning courses that are now strictly AVS and vice versa.
In the pamphlet that was given out to me by recuiting under basic moc trainning it lists flight controls, is it safe to say that as a AVN tech I will be working in the cockpit at times?
P.S. Thanks to all who contribute, really appreciate your time.

 

[cp140tech]

  IE is short for instrument electrical,  usually referred to as electricians.  It is one of the old trades that no longer exists due to the amalgation into AVN, AVS, and ACS.  I believe the old IE techs had the option of going AVS or AVN when the trades changed.

  I don't think you'll see AVN taking on any AVS specialties, some fleets are looking at giving power generation to AVS, but who can say really.  There are functions which are referred to as elementary taskings that anyone can be signed off on, things like A and B checks, simple things that don't require specific courses.  There really is very little crossover between the 2 trades here in 14 AMS, perhaps in other squadrons, but not here.

  You would likely spend a little time doing work in the cockpit no matter which of the 2 trades you select. 

 

[superhawk]

Would be awesome to get some examples of A and B checks from both trades.

 

[superhawk]

Well I got some examples of A,B,C,D checks off the internet civi side which gave me a pretty good undrstanding to what the expression entails.
Finally went with AVN as my primary choice and AVS as secondary and my name was sent out for a merit list for trade qual.
Last time I spoke to my recruiter he said that AVS is priority 2 versus AVN which is priority 7.From what I deduct I will probably end up in what the forces need most which will be AVS as you need more schooling; i.e. fewer possible candidates; this also from the last available openings in each trade that was mentioned.
Wanted to know if anyone knows when the next scheduled AVS course will start or AVN for that matter.From what I hear most likely March 2007.Can anyone shed some light?

 

[aesop081]

Well I got some examples of A,B,C,D checks off the internet civi side which gave me a pretty good undrstanding to what the expression entails.
Finally went with AVN as my primary choice and AVS as secondary and my name was sent out for a merit list for trade qual.
Last time I spoke to my recruiter he said that AVS is priority 2 versus AVN which is priority 7.From what I deduct I will probably end up in what the forces need most which will be AVS as you need more schooling; i.e. fewer possible candidates; this also from the last available openings in each trade that was mentioned.
Wanted to know if anyone knows when the next scheduled AVS course will start or AVN for that matter.From what I hear most likely March 2007.Can anyone shed some light?

"A" check = After flight
"B" check = Before flight
"A/B" check = turn around check

no "C" or "D"

 

[Popurhedoff]

"A" check = After flight
"B" check = Before flight
"A/B" check = turn around check

no "C" or "D"

Not true... CD after 12 years 

 

[superhawk]

Cdnavigator, there are such things as c and d checks civi side, has to do with not daily or monthly but more like yearly or after so many hours of flight. Did not keep the internet address but if you do a "Google" search under "A,B checks(aviation)" you will get more than one company that offer that service. Quality Aviation Inc. I believe offers it.
Thanks for the definitions, military side.

 

[aesop081]

Cdnavigator, there are such things as c and d checks civi side, has to do with not daily or monthly but more like yearly or after so many hours of flight. Did not keep the internet address but if you do a "Google" search under "A,B checks(aviation)" you will get more than one company that offer that service. Quality Aviation Inc. I believe offers it.
Thanks for the definitions, military side.

I was only refering to military aviation...i couldnt give a rat's behind what civvy aviation does.......as long as they stay out of my airspace  ;D

Periodic inspection would be what is done to our birds after so many flying hours....

 

[superhawk]

Heard that some civvy companies work on military aircraft, can you confirm that?