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Best "mud Recce" vehicle?

  • Thread starter Thread starter armd_recce
  • Start date Start date
RecceGuy...

That pic you posted, I'd have to say that is the way to go.  I've always thought that fast and light is better than big, noisy, and lightly armoured.  My first thoughts about the Coyote was that it would SUCK for blind corner drills.  Even with a dismounted observer, you have to expose 2/3's of the vehicle to get the main armament facing downrange.  Even a half-assed anti-tank team could cam themselves good enough that the dismounted observer may miss them, and now you have a burning LAV.

I liked doing recce in an open ILTIS, but I always thought that a slightly bigger vehicle with a .50 cal would be perfect.
 
I tend to like the idea of the Ferret or its bigger brother the Fox.  They are both armoured and quiet.  The Fox has a big gun.  The old guys here can tell you stories of Ferrets creeping up undetected on sentries. 

For tracks, I liked my Lynx, although noisy, it did get into many places that we can not get into today.  Pull everything out of the Engine and Diff compartments, put in a small powerpack from KraussMaffai(SP) in the rear and then put another large fuel cell into the Diff compartment.  No more Prop shaft and Pillow Box, freeing up more room inside.  Put a 20 mm gun into the 20 mm gun mount and away we go.  That or get the German Weissels.

There is no way that the Coyote or LAV III is suitable for Mud Recce or Route Recces.  There is only one large vehicle in this class that I would even consider and that is the German Luchs.  Large, but very quiet.  Drivers, both front and rear.  Same gears forward as backwards.  Big gun.

I learned Recce in jeeps and although they are not much in the way of armour protection, they are a very versatile piece of kit and an excellent choice for a Recce vehicle for the type of Recce we do.  After all, we are not supposed to be seen.  The jeep, with no windshield offers good all around visual and audio surveillance.

GW
 
I found another vehicle that appears to be pretty good.  The Alvis Scarab.  It looks similar to the Fennek.  It lost out to the Panther MLV in the British Army's Future Command & Liaison Vehicle Project.  But the Belgians were looking at it too.  It uses Mercedez engines and components and it is slightly better protected than the other vehicles in this class.  I don't have a specific website but if you search Alvis Scarab there are lots of sites.  There is a good picture in the Defence Update Magazine.
 
http://www.alvisvickers.co.uk/default.html

Here you go Mountie
 
Thanks Kirkhill. 

If you look at the Multi-role Light Vehicle on the same site, it is basically and armoured LUVW-style vehicle based on a soft-skin model.  The British have purchased it for recce, liaison, RRB, FOO, engineer troop leaders, and a few more tasks.  It has a Protected Weapons Station with a 7.62mm GPMG, .50 calibre or a 40mm GMG.  Could the G-Wagon LUVW be armed this much with some modification to the axles, transmission, etc to support the extra weight. Similar to how the Americans have an armoured version of the HMMWV.  Or is this basically the armoured kits for the LUVW C&R?  I didn't think the armoured kits would give it that much protection.  But I obviously don't have any first hand knowlegde. 

I also found a few pictures of a German Army variant to the G-Wagon.  Its called the Light Infantry Vehicle (Special Operations).  It looks like it would be a good recce vehicle as well.

The first picture is the British MLV and the second to are the German LIV(SO).
 
Gee, There's all the equipment we asked for for Mud Recce, and off the shelf too. Too bad no one was listening.
 
Mountie

Your GWagen variant looks kinda nice.  Now let's lower its' profile by 33% and it should be good to go......

GW
 
I don't know.  I think you couldn't make a vehicle like that much smaller.  I would like to think that an observer in the .50 chair could act as a hull or turret down observer.  Even in rolling hill territory, you would not have to expose too much of the vehicle.  Looks like a five star hotel to live out of as well (as compared to the ILTIS).  Living out of those during a Worthington Cup ex sucked.
 
http://www.4wdonline.com.au/Perentie/LRPV.html
http://www.pinzgauer.uk.com/images/OAV2.jpg
http://www.pinzgauer.uk.com/images/G13.jpg
http://www.landroverclub.net/Club/HTML/armyxd.htm

Here are the Aussie, Kiwi and Brit solutions to light recce/long range patrol vehicles.
 
Those Pinzgauer's look like they would be fun to drive when it was pouring rain or -20 .  Do they come with A/C.
 
http://www.pinzgauer.uk.com/images/G27.jpg

You can always get the Staff version for wimps ;D. It even comes in a bullet-proof version that the Kiwis have bought as an APC.  Of course it does present a larger RPG target.

Cheers.
 
Perhaps I am missing something here, but most of the latest ideas seem to be soft skinned trucks or 4X4s dressed up as "gun wagons".

While I am sure many of us have seen the rather interesting photo spreads of "Cameron Spense's" book Sabre Squadron (a good read BTW), the idea of driving into battle in a Landrover 110 or similar festooned with jerrycans of fuel, hundreds of extra 40mm grenade rounds and a brace of anti tank missiles filling every conceivable space might make some people a bit, you know, nervous. Given the changes in warfare since the Persian Gulf War, you would now ask your mud recce guys to face RPGs, suicide bombers and IEDs; even more nerve wracking.

The best solution I would think is find a good general purpose utility vehicle, and use that chassis as the basis for a properly protected recce machine. The side benefits, besides logistics, would be a sealed vehicle with NBC protection and possibly amphibious capability built right in (There can be no gaps in the armour envelope for splinters or fragments to enter once the hatches are closed). Modifying the suspension system to increase ground clearance and put the wheels outside the vehicle envelope (i.e. sticking outside the fenders) has been proven to drastically increase mine protection. Modern materials like Kevlar or SPECTRASHIELD can be used to make lightweight armour panels to stop small arms fire.

The Turkish OTKER is built on the HMMVW platform, the EAGLE I and II are also up armoured HMMVWs, the EAGLE 4 is built on the DURO platform and so on, so it isn't rocket science.
 
What about using a MOWAG Pirana 4 x 4 variant up graded with Krongsberg weapon station and some other cool kit. It not really a large vehicle.
 
George, yes actually something like that! I was sure that the 4 x 4 pirana was even smaller than the 6 x 6. I will half to check it out. We can call it the grizzly cub or something stupid like that.

Or we could re-design the lynx with an upgraded engine, rubber tracks and improved weapon station and observation package?
If United Defense can get the latest test version of the XM8 AGS to motor at 80 KM/H on road, then I am sure we could re-build a better lynx.

Oh what the heck. Lets just put the money into more social and cultural awareness programs for the military (kidding)....
 
ArmyRick said:
Oh what the heck. Lets just put the money into more social and cultural awareness programs for the military (kidding)....

Thats brilliant! Tell your MP that Armoured Recce is so we can get "Social and Cultural Awareness" for the rest of the formation (UAV and Helicopter assets are also vital to this end).

Just don't mention we need this awareness to blow the crap out of them..... ;)
 
;D

Remember, under Chretian we were to become a "Kinder Gentler Army".  "We don't drive Cadilacs, we will drive da Chevies".  Yah......No Cadilacs, we will have to do with Chevies.  Oh!  Hell froze over, or someone in Government Fucked up again (remembering purchase of Leopards in 1977) and bought us some Mercedes GWagons. 

(When we brought back 4CMBG, we had to sell off our Unimogs because we couldn't be seen driving around military pattern vehicles with the Mercedes Logo on the hood; could we?)

GW


PS.  I have advocated redesign/updating the Lynx in the past.

 
The Unimog is a Mercedes utility truck that has been used by the CF in Europe since the 1950s.  It comes in too many variants to list.  We had them as Cargo, Amb, Engineer and other variants over the years.  A very versitile vehicle.  I have seen German farmers driving them parrallel across the sides of hills that a tracked vehicle would have extreme difficulty climbing.  Here are a few links, both Civie and Mil:

http://www.olive-drab.com/od_mvg_www_unimog.php3

http://www.olive-drab.com/idphoto/id_photos_unimog.php3

http://www.unimogtrucks.com/

http://www.unimogusa.com/products.html

http://www.unimog-forever.com/index.htm

http://www.swissarmyvehicles.com/vehiclelist.php?cat=2


With its PTO and other attachments, it can be configured to do almost anything.

GW
 
I've seen some of the vehicles driving around as delivery trucks. Or something very close. Wonder if someone payed to have them brought over for cheap after we sold them off?

A redesign of the Lynx would be awesome. That was a great piece of kit.

Universal chassis? How about we up armour and put a rise kit on a few Chevy cavaliers? There built close by and your never going to look twice at them in the urban environment. They just blend in. If street gangs can use them for drive by shootings, why can't we?

 
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