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'Black hole' machine could destroy planet: lawsuit

The gravitational pull of a blackhole is non-existant until you cross the Schwarzschild radius. After that to escape it requires the speed of light. Here is an example of the sun became a blackhole it would not affect the earth - meaning the earth wouldnt get sucked into it. The Schwarzschild radius of our sun would be only 3km compared to the sun's 700,000 km.

Try this link.
http://hubblesite.org/explore_astronomy/black_holes/encyclopedia.html
 
tomahawk6 said:
The gravitational pull of a blackhole is non-existant until you cross the Schwarzschild radius. After that to escape it requires the speed of light. Here is an example of the sun became a blackhole it would not affect the earth - meaning the earth wouldnt get sucked into it. The Schwarzschild radius of our sun would be only 3km compared to the sun's 700,000 km.

Try this link.
http://hubblesite.org/explore_astronomy/black_holes/encyclopedia.html


Cool link. I found this clip here and it's got some nice tidbits worth sharing  :)

http://hubblesite.org/explore_astronomy/black_holes/encyc_mod3_q4.html

What is inside a black hole?

We cannot glimpse what lies inside the event horizon of a black hole because light or material from there can never reach us. Even if we could send an explorer into the black hole, she could never communicate back to us.

Current theories predict that all the matter in a black hole is piled up in a single point at the center, but we do not understand how this central singularity works. To properly understand the black hole center requires a fusion of the theory of gravity with the theory that describes the behavior of matter on the smallest scales, called quantum mechanics. This unifying theory has already been given a name, quantum gravity, but how it works is still unknown. This is one of the most important unsolved problems in physics. Studies of black holes may one day provide the key to unlock this mystery.

Einstein's theory of general relativity allows unusual characteristics for black holes. For example, the central singularity might form a bridge to another Universe. This is similar to a so-called wormhole (a mysterious solution of Einstein's equations that has no event horizon). Bridges and wormholes might allow travel to other Universes or even time travel. But without observational and experimental data, this is mostly speculation. We do not know whether bridges or wormholes exist in the Universe, or could even have formed in principle. By contrast, black holes have been observed to exist and we understand how they form.
 
tomahawk6 said:
The gravitational pull of a blackhole is non-existant until you cross the Schwarzschild radius. After that to escape it requires the speed of light. Here is an example of the sun became a blackhole it would not affect the earth - meaning the earth wouldnt get sucked into it. The Schwarzschild radius of our sun would be only 3km compared to the sun's 700,000 km.

Perhaps a better wording would be that 'until an object is reduced in size equal to, or below, it's Schwarzchild radius it is simply not a blackhole', because the mass, as I'm sure you well know, still exerts a gravitational pull even though it might be not yet be dense enough for it to be a blackhole.
 
The fallacy with the Sun example is that it skipped a step.  The Sun would have grown to a Red Giant before shrinking, and as a Red Giant it would have consumed the Earth and probably Mars as well.
 
I thought the sun was a red giant already, the only thing it has left to do is go supernova before the impending back hole forms and sucks the rest of our solar entities into it.

But what's to say the sun doesn't simply fizzle out like a tired ember at the center of the fire. When all the fuel is used up it's lights out?
 
Snafu-Bar said:
I thought the sun was a red giant already, the only thing it has left to do is go supernova before the impending back hole forms and sucks the rest of our solar entities into it.

But what's to say the sun doesn't simply fizzle out like a tired ember at the center of the fire. When all the fuel is used up it's lights out?

As the fuel is used up the gravity of the sun allows it to expand into a red giant, but with lower consumption/less heat, but by that time we are a ember in it's periphery.....
 
The sun is far from a red giant---the spectral classification of the sun is G2V.   G2 means the sun is a main sequence star whose visible light output peaks in the yellow part of the spectrum----the V means that it is a sub-dwarf star.  In actual fact----if you took a random sample of 100 stars near the sun----the sun is larger than about 90% of them.  Most nearby stars are very dim red dwarf stars less than 1% of the brightness of the sun.

As the sun ages and the core runs out of fusible hydrogen, the core(mainly helium) will contract and heat up.  At a certain temperature(between 100 million degrees C and 400 million degrees C) the helium starts to fuse.  As this core contraction and new energy process starts, the outer layers of the sun will expand---just how far depends on which processes are going on in the core and the mass of the outer layers.  To see more on some of this:

http://www.astrophysicsspectator.com/topics/stars/FusionHelium.html

To the topic at hand:  There is NO possibility of danger even if a quantum black hole were formed.  For these very small quantum black holes will "evaporate" by the Hawking radiation process in a tiny fraction of a second.  

To create dangerous quantum black holes of sufficient mass so that their gravitational field is stronger than the Hawking radiation pressure(this is needed so the black hole can grow) would require energy densities  far far beyond anything we possess---think of a Hydrogen bomb whose reacting mass of deuterium is on the order of several hundred thousand cubic kilometers!  So these worries are truly in the realm of science fiction.

For more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_black_hole

Bearpaw


 
Better description than mine....
 
Most accelerators create very tiny bits of anti-matter that last for pico-seconds.  A more interesting question is what could you do with a tiny black hole if you could obtain one?

Robert Forward did a lot of "out of the box" thinking in this area---his book "Future Magic" outlines how to manipulate tiny black holes, how to make a "gravity screen",......

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_L._Forward

As an aside Forward developed some of the tools for ASW work.

Bearpaw
 
Well, I'm pretty sure this is it.  This machine is pretty much guaranteed to make the black hole, and I can say with certainty it's probably going to eat the planet.

I don't know why the scientists want this Higgs-Boson particle to be found anyways.  Wanna know why mass-less particles give rise to massive objects (atoms, molecules, you, me, 1967 VW's), it's because God says so!

These "scientist" types need to quit it with the smashing things together bit and get on with the important stuff like flying cars.
 
hauger said:
These "scientist" types need to quit it with the smashing things together bit and get on with the important stuff like flying cars.
But they have to understand what happens when things smash together... You know, things like flying cars
 
I spoke to Mr Freeman about this and he thinks we will be safe. His famous line is its better to have halflife rather than no life at all. ;D
 
Here's a decent read from my local newpaper.

http://www.thespec.com/News/BreakingNews/article/432761

Scientists cheer atom smasher's success
September 10, 2008
The Associated Press
GENEVA — The world’s largest particle collider successfully completed its first major test by firing a beam of protons all the way around a 27-kilometre tunnel Wednesday in what scientists hope is the next great step to understanding the makeup of the universe.
After a series of trial runs, two white dots flashed on a computer screen indicating that the protons had traveled the full length of the $3.8 billion US Large Hadron Collider.
There it is,” project leader Lyn Evans said when the beam completed its lap.
The startup was eagerly awaited by 9,000 physicists around the world who now have much greater power than ever before to smash the components of atoms together in attempts to see how they are made.
“Well done everybody,” Robert Aymar, director-general of the European Organization for Nuclear Research, said after the protons were fired into the accelerator below the Swiss-French border at 9:32 a.m.
The organization, known by its French acronym CERN, fired the protons — a type of subatomic particle — around the tunnel in stages, several kilometres at a time.
Now that the beam has been successfully tested in clockwise direction, CERN plans to send it counterclockwise. Eventually the two beams will be fired in opposite directions with the aim of smashing together protons to see how they are made.
The startup comes over the objections of some skeptics who fear the collisions of protons could eventually imperil the earth.
The skeptics theorized that a byproduct of the collisions could be micro black holes, subatomic versions of collapsed stars whose gravity is so strong they can suck in planets and other stars.
“It’s nonsense,” said James Gillies, chief spokesman for CERN, before Wednesday’s start.
CERN is backed by leading scientists like Britain’s Stephen Hawking in dismissing the fears and declaring the experiments to be absolutely safe.
Gillies told the AP that the most dangerous thing that could happen would be if a beam at full power were to go out of control, and that would only damage the accelerator itself and burrow into the rock around the tunnel.
And full power is probably a year away.
“On Wednesday we start small,” said Gillies. “A really good result would be to have the other beam going around, too, because once you’ve got a beam around once in both directions you know that there is no show-stopper.”
The LHC, as the collider is known, will take scientists to within a split second of a laboratory recreation of the big bang, which they theorize was the massive explosion that created the universe.
The project organized by the 20 European member nations of CERN has attracted researchers from 80 countries. Some 1,200 are from the United States, an observer country which contributed $531 million. Japan, another observer, also is a major contributor.
The collider is designed to push the proton beam close to the speed of light, whizzing 11,000 times a second around the tunnel.
Smaller colliders have been used for decades to study the makeup of the atom. Less than 100 years ago scientists thought protons and neutrons were the smallest components of an atom’s nucleus, but in stages since then experiments have shown they were made of still smaller quarks and gluons and that there were other forces and particles.
The CERN experiments could reveal more about “dark matter,” antimatter and possibly hidden dimensions of space and time. It could also find evidence of the hypothetical particle — the Higgs boson — believed to give mass to all other particles, and thus to matter that makes up the universe.
Some scientists have been waiting for 20 years to use the LHC.
 
Bearpaw said:
A more interesting question is what could you do with a tiny black hole if you could obtain one?

Drop it off in the Middle East. Watch the ensuing hilarity on CNN.
 
NINJA said:
Drop it off in the Middle East. Watch the ensuing hilarity on CNN.

;D

OK?  Just for shits and giggles; how do you propose doing that?  Carry it there in your pocket as carry on luggage on an Air Canada flight?
 
Well we're still alive, so this is a good sign.  Either that, or we all got sucked into a black whole overnight and are alive in some parallel dimension....but it looks like the one I was in yesterday, so whatever.
 
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