Blow money on parties for past wars, or invest in military capability and support to vets?

[The Bread Guy]

This from the VAC Info-machine ....

The Honourable Julian Fantino, Minister of Veterans Affairs, today joined counterparts from 22 countries at an international ministerial seminar on the centennial of the First World War in Paris, France. The meeting, hosted by Minister Kader Arif, Minister for Veterans at the Ministry of Defence in France, provided an important opportunity to build ties with international counterparts on a key, historic joint initiative, to coordinate national and international programs on the centennial and to develop a common approach to international ceremonies that will take place beginning in 2014. The ministers also discussed plans for the 70th anniversary of D-Day and the Battle of Normandy, on June 6, 2014.

(....)

With the beginning of the centennial of the First World War in 2014, Canada will participate in the Bastille Day Military Parade in France. In 2015, the 100th anniversary of the Battle of Gallipoli will be marked with commemorative ceremonies in Turkey. A highlight in 2016 will be the 100th anniversary of the Battles of the Somme and Beaumont-Hamel. Centennial events will culminate with the 100th anniversary of the Battle of Vimy Ridge where thousands of students are expected to join in honouring Canada’s Veterans of the First World War. Battles related to Canada’s Hundred Days, which led to the Armistice, will also be commemorated during this period.

Canada will also take part in marking significant anniversaries of the Second World War including both the 70th and 75th anniversaries of D-Day and the Battle of Normandy, and the 75th anniversaries of the Dieppe Raid, Victory in Europe Day, the Italian Campaign and the end of the Second World War ....

 

[McG]

Veterans are urging that costs be kept down on the coming celebrations of the two world wars, noting that the money could better be spent supporting veterans.  I wonder if any money could also be found here to sustain the military’s readiness for future threats.

Veterans urge Stephen Harper government to avoid ‘Cadillac’ version of war commemorations
Lee Berthiaume, Postmedia News
Ottawa Citizen
10 February 2014

Veterans’ advocates are urging restraint as the federal Conservative government prepares to spend what could be hundreds of millions of dollars to commemorate the First and Second World Wars starting later this year.

The Veterans Ombudsman’s office and the Royal Canadian Legion say it is important and necessary for the government to mark Canada’s contributions and sacrifice during both conflicts, which included such defining moments as Vimy Ridge and Dieppe.

But they oppose extravagant displays of pomp and ceremony at a time when they say many Canadian veterans are not getting the services and support they so desperately need.

“I understand our role on the world stage and what we should do to commemorate the fantastic deeds that have been done in the past,” said deputy veterans ombudsman Gary Walbourne.

“But I don’t know if we need the Cadillac version for every event.”

The Conservative government has not said how much it is budgeting for the commemorations, which will mark the 100th anniversary of the First World War and the 75th anniversary of the Second World War and run through 2020.

But the $30 million the government spent two years ago to commemorate the War of 1812 is expected to be just a drop in the bucket given the higher profile and greater importance attached to the two world wars.

The veterans ombudsman’s office released a report in the fall that found a number of problems with the veterans affairs system, including hundreds of disabled veterans at risk of living out the rest of their lives in poverty.

“Yes, there’s a need and a place (for commemorations),” Walbourne said. “But there are bigger needs and requirements that are needed today, that are urgent today.”

Veterans Affairs spokeswoman Janice Summerby said the government “remains committed to making sure all of Canada’s veterans and their families have the support they need – when they need it and where they need it.”

But the Royal Canadian Legion has called on the government to come clean on how much it plans to spend between now and 2020, when the last events are scheduled to take place.

Legion spokesman Scott Ferris said a “balance” is needed between commemoration and supporting veterans, and the organization wants to ensure the government doesn’t sway too far towards the former, particularly given recent budget cuts at Veterans Affairs.

“There are some significant outstanding needs that veterans must have addressed,” he said. “And we have to keep that all in mind, while we still ensure, of course, that commemoration activities happen, and they happen well.”

Hundreds of employees have been laid off at Veterans Affairs Canada as the Conservative government has cut more than $129 million from the department’s budget since 2011, with another $132 million planned by 2016.

Just last month the government closed nine Veterans Affairs offices across the country in an effort to save about $4 million per year, which prompted angry protests.

The government says the offices were casualties of a decline in the number of Second World War and Korean War veterans in those locations.

But some have noted the money spent commemorating the War of 1812 could have been used to keep the offices open seven years.

“It’s really convenient to make these ceremonies,” Afghan veteran Bruce Moncur said last month. “But I think the money would be better spent helping the veterans who need the help so badly.”

Heritage Canada is the lead department when it comes to commemorations, but other departments such as National Defence and Veterans Affairs are often pulled in.

National Defence is already bracing for the worst after senior officials warned last year that $22 million set aside by the department for the commemorations wouldn’t be enough, and that the actual drain on resources and personnel could threaten the military’s ability to do its job.

NDP veterans affairs critic Peter Stoffer said no matter which department is responsible for leading the commemorations, there are only so many taxpayer dollars to go around and whatever is spent on commemorations is not available for veterans.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Veterans+urge+Stephen+Harper+government+avoid+Cadillac/9491559/story.html

 

[pbi]

As far as I can tell, the CAF itself isn't setting very much aside for these commemorations. Don't have any idea about Heritage Canada.

Hopefully we will not be throwing the baby out with the bathwater here. Both those wars had massive impacts on Canada in many ways, not the least being the creation of "The Veteran" as a part of our society. On these pages we regularly bemoan the fact that Canadians are lost in a fuzzy blue world of false peacekeeping "memories", at the expense of rememberng our warfighting heritage.

I'm not supporting wasteful spending, but I'm not in favour of blind penny-pinching, either. Besides, I'm not really convinced that it's an "either/or" problem for our government anyway.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

What is bugging me is the lump grouping of all of us into the 'headline' word of "Veterans". 

 

[pbi]

What is bugging me is the lump grouping of all of us into the 'headline' word of "Veterans".

Yes, exactly...

 

[Jarnhamar]

I'd like to see a Canadian replica of the Vimy Ridge monument.

 

[George Wallace]

I'd like to see a Canadian replica of the Vimy Ridge monument.

The CWM has some of the original designs and sculpture models.

See also the memorial proposed for the Cabot Trail:  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/113469/post-1280235.html#msg1280235

 

[ArmyRick]

I mostly agree with the article. Look after veterans and their needs first. Then we can do the ceremonies, memorials and other historically important stuff. We do have to prioritize. I am looking at Canadian federal funds on the whole not just DND or vets affairs or any other one department.

Trust me, there are too many out there who will not let veterans of any war, conflict or mission be forgotten.

 

[OldSolduer]

As far as I can tell, the CAF itself isn't setting very much aside for these commemorations. Don't have any idea about Heritage Canada.

Hopefully we will not be throwing the baby out with the bathwater here. Both those wars had massive impacts on Canada in many ways, not the least being the creation of "The Veteran" as a part of our society. On these pages we regularly bemoan the fact that Canadians are lost in a fuzzy blue world of false peacekeeping "memories", at the expense of rememberng our warfighting heritage.

I'm not supporting wasteful spending, but I'm not in favour of blind penny-pinching, either. Besides, I'm not really convinced that it's an "either/or" problem for our government anyway.

I agree.

What I would not like to see is a few veterans stuffed on a plane and sent to France while several Members of Parliament go on the taxpayers dime......

 

[Danjanou]

I agree.

What I would not like to see is a few veterans stuffed on a plane and sent to France while several Members of Parliament VAC high ranking paper pushers, RCL brass, and assorted others all up for a shopping spree in Paris, go on the taxpayers dime......

FTFY

 

[OldSolduer]

Thanks very much.

 

[Journeyman]

What I would not like to see is a few veterans stuffed on a plane and sent to France while several Members of Parliament, VAC high ranking paper pushers, RCL brass, and assorted others all up for a shopping spree in Paris,  go on the taxpayers dime......

Maybe we should spend nothing, but let the Euro/Pacific equivalent fly over here to say "thank you."

I'm sure there'd be no shortage of people seeking a photo-op to go up to a mic to say "you're welcome."

 

[Halifax Tar]

Maybe we should spend nothing, but let the Euro/Pacific equivalent fly over here to say "thank you."

I'm sure there'd be no shortage of people seeking a photo-op to go up to a mic to say "you're welcome."

:goodpost:

Milpoints, Incoming!

 

[Danjanou]

Maybe we should spend nothing, but let the Euro/Pacific equivalent fly over here to say "thank you."

I'm sure there'd be no shortage of people seeking a photo-op to go up to a mic to say "you're welcome."

Works for me, the Flin Flon Legion is lovely in June I hear. 8)

 

[The Bread Guy]

From the Globe & Mail:

The Department of National Defence fears public denunciation over government spending on the centennial of the First World War and the 75th anniversary of the Second World War, with senior officials harbouring concerns that Ottawa will be pilloried for wasting money that should go to veterans instead.

“There is the risk of criticism for spending on commemoration instead of investing more in services and benefits for veterans,” an internal Defence communications plan for Canada’s commemoration of the two 20th-century conflicts says. The draft strategy also warns that media may “raise concerns about the cost of the commemoration activities during a time of fiscal restraint.”

Government-funded tributes and remembrance events begin in 2014, the 100th anniversary of the start of the First World War, and continue for six years. “Our achievements during the war were a vital step on the road to full nationhood, with Prime Minister Robert Borden gaining the right to sign the Treaty of Versailles,” the National Defence plan says.

How much Ottawa is spending to remember the First World War and Second World War is a mystery.

The Department of National Defence referred queries to the Department of Canadian Heritage, where an official repeatedly declined to offer a dollar figure. “The Government of Canada has funded and will continue to fund significant national milestones that are an important part of our shared history,” Heritage spokesman Len Westerberg said.

“There is not one special budget for these combined events.”

Records obtained under access to information by researcher Ken Rubin show the Department of National Defence prepared a three-part “mitigation strategy” if it faces questions about why Ottawa is not spending more on veterans instead of funding tributes to military service.

Officials are to say that commemorating key milestones is “an important part of how Canadian society marks its progress,” the DND plan says.

Forty-five thousand Canadians died in the Second World War, it notes, helping “win the struggle against tyranny.” Through the ordeal of war, it says, “Canada matured and modernized as a nation.”

Officials are instructed to say that the government is “committeed to providing injured and ill members of the Canadian Forces and veterans with the care and support they need.” Finally, they’re told to note the commemoration spending comes from existing departmental budgets rather than newly allocated money.

Defence planners are warned to tread lightly with Quebeckers “who are more pacifist than other Canadians.” Focus groups conducted in 2012 for DND found that francophone participants acknowledged that while commemorating historical events is important, “they felt these celebrations need to be modest in scale.” ....

 

[ModlrMike]

Records obtained under access to information by researcher

Perhaps "Records obtained under access to information by professional ATI request factory" is more accurate.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Bumped with more detail....

Talk about battle fatigue. The Canadian government plans to commemorate more than 50 military milestones between now and 2020 — prompting fresh concern about the financial burden they may place on the Canadian Forces.

Details of the coming celebrations are contained in documents tabled in the House of Commons this week.

They show that the government plans to hold 16 commemoration events in 2014-15, four in 2015-16, 15 events in 2016-17, 10 events in 2017-18, three in 2018-19, and five the following year.

These include celebrations of major milestones such as the 70th anniversary of D-Day and the Battle of Normandy, and a commemoration of the mission in Afghanistan. But there are also lesser-known anniversaries, such as the centennial of the Canadian Submarine Service, the centennial of the opening of Camp Valcartier in Quebec, and the 75th anniversary of the British Commonwealth Air Training Plan.

The documents do not contain a full estimate of the cost for each event, or the total cost for the next six years.

But the figure is expected to dwarf the estimated $30 million spent to mark the anniversary of the War of 1812 ....

Here's a link to the document with the full list.  Don't worry, though ....

Upcoming commemoration events for the First and Second World Wars won’t hurt the budget of the Canadian Forces or the military’s ability to do its job, says Veterans Affairs Minister Julian Fantino.

“We’re confident that it’s not a trade-off,” Fantino told reporters and veterans Monday as he announced some ways the federal government plans to mark the 100th anniversary of the the start of the First World War and the 75th anniversary of the start of the Second World War.

“Our government has consistently ensured that our men and women serving have all the resources and the equipment and the training necessary for them to fulfil the missions in which Canada engages,” he said.

Postmedia News reported last week that some Canadian Forces members are worried their budget and operations will be compromised by the volume of upcoming commemorations.

“There is a risk that the CA (Canadian Army) budget in 2016-18 will be dislocated by a plethora of commemoration that will be politically driven and difficult to forecast,” says a secret briefing note sent to Canadian army commander Lt.-Gen. Marquis Hainse.

But Fantino spoke Monday of Canadians’ “profound duty to commemorate and honour those who served at home and abroad,” as he unveiled plans for commemorating the wars this summer by rededicating the National War Memorial in Ottawa ....

Postmedia News, 13 Jan 14

 

[McG]

The cost will be > $30 million, but there is no trade-off?
Does that mean the money just would not exist if it were not being invested in military heritage endeavours?

 

[ArmyRick]

"The art of misdirection" If you have not seen Monsters U, watch it and you will get the line. Thats the line that comes to mind with the governments big whoop dee being thrown for things like war of 1812, the world wars, etc, etc.

I am not sure it is wise and may draw some ire from the masses. If every newspaper and critic is screaming this is not a good idea when modern day vets are struggling, you need to heed the warnings. Just my thoughts.

 

[Furniture]

Maybe I've misjudged the general consensus here, but what I gather is people are angry that the government is celebrating significant battles that involved Canadian troops? Ones so significant that we as a nation built massive war memorials on foreign soil to commemorate?

I get that we are all angry about the lack of support for Veterans, and serving members but lets be clear here. If the money wasn't being spent on celebrating and honouring our past it would be wasted on yet another idiotic theatre project or some other cultural affair that really only appeals to the select few. At lest the government is highlighting the events that helped lead Canada to be the nation it is today.

Why don't we try dropping some of the cynicism and anger over the things that aren't bad, and focus on the things that matter. Things like the Navy not having boats, the army not having money to train properly, and the air force not having a replacement for the Buffalo yet... A few grand on some parades to honour our forefathers isn't a bad thing, it's not the best thing but it's not bad.