British Military Current Events

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Sea sickness patches, anyone?

 

[Halifax Tar]

Sea sickness patches, anyone?

You know we cant get them from the medical system anymore.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

I didn't know that: pills only, now?

 

[Halifax Tar]

I didn't know that: pills only, now?

Yup.

But I buy patches from Amazon.

 

[Blackadder1916]

You know we cant get them from the medical system anymore.

No longer familiar with the military formulary, but if the patch of choice was Scopolamine (i.e., Transderm V) the reason would be because it's no longer available in Canada.

 

[Halifax Tar]

No longer familiar with the military formulary, but if the patch of choice was Scopolamine (i.e., Transderm V) the reason would be because it's no longer available in Canada.

And that's exactly what my Doc told me on CHA Why did this happen ? Do you know ?

Merci Beaucoup!

 

[FJAG]

Without a doubt something is awry in our medical system.

But troops also shouldn't arrive in battle vomiting and unsteady either because of the equipment the crown bought them.

I agree that it shouldn't.

I spent years as my younger self bouncing around in M113s and M577s and because of their aluminum hulls they're pretty light, bounce and vibrate and are loud. I can't ever recall anyone getting sick in them even when buttoned down in the back. Mind you fifty years later I do have tinnitus to which they no doubt contributed - but at the time . . .

You can run tests on the physical aspects of vehicles and my understanding is that AJAX had been tested extensively and whatever was wrong with them initially had been worked out. The basic ASCOD model has been in service with Austria and Spain for decades. It's not like its experimental.

The problem now is what do you do with almost 600 of these things which were supposed to be the stars of modern cavalry warfare. These aren't the type of injuries that can be easily confirmed or analyzed. My guess is that regardless of what is done, there will now always be some folks complaining of these symptoms.

Mass psychogenic illness (MPI), also called mass sociogenic illness, mass psychogenic disorder, epidemic hysteria or mass hysteria, involves the spread of illness symptoms through a population where there is no infectious agent responsible for contagion. It is the rapid spread of illness signs and symptoms affecting members of a cohesive group, originating from a nervous system disturbance involving excitation, loss, or alteration of function, whereby physical complaints that are exhibited unconsciously have no corresponding organic causes that are known

The simple fact is that operating heavy machinery, whether military or construction, comes with high levels of vibration, noise and erratic movement. Those can cause headaches, disorientation and nausea (especially when buttoned up).

I know that these days it's not on to say "its all in their heads," . . . but. Clearly some additional independent testing is necessary - such as comparing the physical conditions in AJAX to those in older generations of tracked vehicles and then comparing the identified medical conditions of the various users. Better ear protection is an easy solution. Transferring folks who get nauseous to a different branch/workspace may be necessary as well if a "fixable" issue on AJAX can't be identified. My guess is after years of dealing with this, there are no longer any "fixable" issues to address with the vehicle. It may need to turn to removing the folks who can't handle that work.

Rock. Hard Place.

 

[Blackadder1916]

And that's exactly what my Doc told me on CHA Why did this happen ? Do you know ?

Merci Beaucoup!

What I've seen indicated that it was a combination of supply chain issues as well as reports of hyperthermia (overheating) associated with its use. One of the practicing PAs might have a better idea. I haven't used scopolamine in decades (never personally - motion sickness was never a problem) but when OTC remedies didn't provide relief, a quick shot in the arm was enough to keep the use of barf bags to a minimum (Ex Kernal Potlach '79 - 3 PPCLI, Provider, Cleveland LPD7 and splashing around in LCMs and Amtraks).

 

[Halifax Tar]

I agree that it shouldn't.

I spent years as my younger self bouncing around in M113s and M577s and because of their aluminum hulls they're pretty light, bounce and vibrate and are loud. I can't ever recall anyone getting sick in them even when buttoned down in the back. Mind you fifty years later I do have tinnitus to which they no doubt contributed - but at the time . . .

You can run tests on the physical aspects of vehicles and my understanding is that AJAX had been tested extensively and whatever was wrong with them initially had been worked out. The basic ASCOD model has been in service with Austria and Spain for decades. It's not like its experimental.

The problem now is what do you do with almost 600 of these things which were supposed to be the stars of modern cavalry warfare. These aren't the type of injuries that can be easily confirmed or analyzed. My guess is that regardless of what is done, there will now always be some folks complaining of these symptoms.



The simple fact is that operating heavy machinery, whether military or construction, comes with high levels of vibration, noise and erratic movement. Those can cause headaches, disorientation and nausea (especially when buttoned up).

I know that these days it's not on to say "its all in their heads," . . . but. Clearly some additional independent testing is necessary - such as comparing the physical conditions in AJAX to those in older generations of tracked vehicles and then comparing the identified medical conditions of the various users. Better ear protection is an easy solution. Transferring folks who get nauseous to a different branch/workspace may be necessary as well if a "fixable" issue on AJAX can't be identified. My guess is after years of dealing with this, there are no longer any "fixable" issues to address with the vehicle. It may need to turn to removing the folks who can't handle that work.

Rock. Hard Place.

I see you dusted off the old "it sucked for me so it should suck for them" mantra. Traditional CAF leadership at its finest.

Look the fact is this is a shit eater problem so who really cares, but we should be looking at ways to improve things. Not accept shittiness because that's what we experienced.

Also if you cant tell the obvious signs someone is vomiting and unsteady on their feet, come for a run ashore sometime