Cadets that take things too far?

[GGHG_Cadet]

I didn't really know what to title this but its not the title that matters. Do any of you SNCOs out their find that you have cadets that are trying to be hardcore to the point of stupidity? Today we were in a local forest doing our winter bush night. We were playing capture the flag and we had the prisoners sitting/lying on the ground we said if your cold get up or if you need a fire blanket say something, looking after them like we were supposed to. When we got everyone up I noticed that a couple who didn't say anything the whole night were shivering like mad. They only had their combats without jackets, which they thought they did not need. I checked for things like frost bite or hypothermia. We treated them as if they had hypothermia. After the night was over I asked them why they didn't say anything and their response was " We were being hardcore and sucking it up like soldiers." When they said that I almost flipped. Does anyone else have cadets like these ones? IF they do what do you say to them?

 

[alan_li_13]

Definately, we have a few JNCO's that go around calling drill and cadence in a "special" voice just so they can sound like the FMJ guy or something. There's also always seniors that think they're cool when they swear alot. Not only is that a very bad example, it makes them sound like some uncultured, uneducated, Neanderthal. Those guys also seem to pick on the young cadets, particularly the ones with a few shortcomings. Its ok to motivate them a little, but what they do is just perfect examples of why CHAP was implimented.

 

[Scott]

GGHG, sounds like you implemented the proper response to such a thing, caring for those in your charge is a very important responsibility. Try making clear to them that there is no such thing as "hardcore" when it comes to caring for yourself. The ones who try to tough it out and end up as casualties are a burden to the unit as now you must try to care for them and sacrifice all else. During my time in the Reserves we were taught to care for our bodies and to pack for the weather. A soldier relies on their body to accomplish a task, can't do that when you're sun-pooched or frostbitten, right?

rifle team captain, hopefully CHAP will rid this sort of attitude from the CCM, there is no need for it. But think of this; maybe the persons in question are just getting into it a bit much and need to be reigned in just a bit by your Officers. Hopefully they'll grow out of it, if they don't they may come to realize, should they progress into the Pres or the Regs, that sort of behavior is not tolerated or condoned.

Good posts.

 

[HollywoodHitman]

"You don't have to be miserable or uncomfortable to be hard"

                      -CWO RG Gilmour

 

[cursedhighlander]

When I was commanding a platoon for the first time I was doing a normal voice saying things like "squad attention!" in a normal voice. However my sergeant was yelling to me in a nice way to "use my drill voice" because when I call timings I yell really loud. My former CSM did that and when they asked me 3 times I caved in. I yelled kinda loud but the platoon seemed to like that. So I don't think that yelling really loud is a big problem however I have a few hardcore people in my corps that do exactly what your cadets did however they don't shiver. But 1 quit the other is arrested and now I think people seriously need to get a grip. This is Canada!!!Those movies you see like FMJ and "Platoon" are sterotypical U.S.A movies. During those times mostly criminals and people off the street were drafted into the army. In Canada we can't have a criminal record if you want to be in the army. I think you made a good idea of posting this. After all look at my quote!

 

[Observer23]

In both Regular and Reserve forces, no soldier worth being a soldier is going to sit out in the woods to freeze without proper kit.  Many go on exercise with the soul focus on being able to make yourself comfortable with the equipment we have (familiarization training).

Being â Å“Hardâ ? deals with a few things:

Strength of character - If a question is asked of you, you must be able to answer the question without â Å“bending the truthâ ? or exaggeration.  This leads to in integrity and trust.  If you don't have this, get out of my trench.

Professional development â “ Through course and your own initiative you should study to better your knowledge and skills.  A lot of the competent soldiers I've dealt with practice and study much of their skills on their own (orienteering, camping, swimming, etc).

Fitness â “ Any monkey can sit in a snow bank and freeze.  That is not bragging rights.  Being â Å“Hardâ ? in a physical sense deals with bettering yourself through fitness.  How far can swim for?  Can you climb that obstacle?  How far can you carry a rucksack?  I've never asked any of my subordinates how long they can endure an ice-cream headache.

If you know you shouldn't do something, never let your people get away with doing it as well.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

During those times mostly criminals and people off the street were drafted into the army.

I am sure all the US servicemen who served their country honourably during that time period really appreciate being called a crimminal and people of the street. Do some research on the Draft and how it was implemtnted before making such broad statements!

 

[condor888000]

My units lucky, the worst we've ever had is one of the cadets fainting on parade, fortunatly he missed the pontoonof the float plane directly in front of him...

 

[Scott]

This is Canada!!!Those movies you see like FMJ and "Platoon" are sterotypical U.S.A movies. During those times mostly criminals and people off the street were drafted into the army. In Canada we can't have a criminal record if you want to be in the army. I think you made a good idea of posting this. After all look at my quote!

You are basing your statements on what experience? How do you know that those movies are stereotypical "American" ones? And how do you know that a person with a criminal record can not gain entry into the CF?

I'll set you straight. A very good friend of mine got caught for drinking and driving and was accepted into the CF three years after his conviction date, he did not have a pardon because he had not let five years elapse from the time of his conviction. He had to jump through a few more hoops and was subject to a bit more scrutiny, so he says, but he did get in and has since been pardoned and is enjoying his career. Try some research before you post.

Here's something that you are supposed to read before pposting in the Cadet Forums: http://army.ca/forums/threads/26989.0.html

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Not off to a good start there cursed you may want to read the FAQ and go through the forum guidelines.

 

[purple peguin]

I no i would look out for younger cadets in cold weather/ even warm weather. we dont need any wannabe rambo's running around without any shirts/ jackets off. And i know with my core if you dont have a jacket on your sent home! Last year on one of our excersises i no i was very cold and our C.O came around to almost every cadet and made sure they were taken care of.

 

[GGHG_Cadet]

Does anybody have any ideas to get these cadets to stop thinking the way the do? So hopefully next time i won't have to deal with any near hypothemic cadets.

 

[kincanucks]

Does anybody have any ideas to get these cadets to stop thinking the way the do? So hopefully next time i won't have to deal with any near hypothemic cadets.

Probably start by putting more adults in charge instead of letting kids look after kids.

 

[cursedhighlander]

OK let me restate my forum and im sorry if I offenced anyone I didn't mean to  I am not saying that American soldiers were bums or criminals off the street. However I saw on the news that people who were drafted into the army were people from small towns you never heard of and I'm not saying Canadians are people who are nice and Americans are bad. Once again im sorry for my incorrect choice of words and I hope you take it as a misunderstanding. As for the criminal record I have heard it from many people about it. My RSM told us about that member who was arrested for spraying hairspray in a cadet's eyes. He cannot join the reserves now. But he is applying for Commissionaire (is that spelled right? Please correct me). When I talked about FMJ I don't think that they really did yell at their charges or swore at them during training. I meant that those MOVIES show things that didn't really happen. Once again I am very sorry for the offense I may have caused and I didn't mean to hurt anyone.

 

[sgt_mandal]

Probably start by putting more adults in charge instead of letting kids look after kids.

I'm sorry sir, but what do you mean by this? Are you saying that being a cadet means that you are automatically a "kid"? As cadets we are taught to be mature and professional at all times.

Does anybody have any ideas to get these cadets to stop thinking the way the do? So hopefully next time i won't have to deal with any near hypothemic cadets.

What I've always done whenever we are out in the bush or out where its cold, is if I see a cadet with their jacket unzipped, I tell them to zip it up, If they are not wearing their hats and gloves, I tell them to put those on aswel.

You must always watch your cadets. If you see something you don't like fix it right away. You had said that you "noticed a couple who didn't say anything the whole night". This would have been a clue to check in with them and see how they were doing. I know the rest of that sentence went on to say they "were shivering like mad" but, I just extracted the first part to show you that you did notice them before they started shivering, right? As you had also stated, they were wearing only their combats, with no jackets. At this point I would have stopped them from playing and told them to get their jackets if they wished to continue.

Something like this happened a while ago on one of our bush weekends. A cadet was cold because the jacket he was wearing, although it looked quite warm, it wasn't. he also didn't have gloves or a hat. That night, during dinner, me and another Sgt noticed him shivering in teh back of them mod tent. We immediately went to notify they officers who issued him a parka (we had about 20 of them to issue out as needed), hat, and gloves. needless to say, he warmed right up and started participating once again.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Apology accepted cursed...btw there is a spell check function on the bottom of your posting window so there is no need to ask us if words are spelled correctly. Word of advice....don't go on what others tell you, listen to what they say and do your own research. What they say and what you might find out on your own might be really far apart.

 

[GGHG_Cadet]

You must always watch your cadets. If you see something you don't like fix it right away. You had said that you "noticed a couple who didn't say anything the whole night". This would have been a clue to check in with them and see how they were doing. I know the rest of that sentence went on to say they "were shivering like mad" but, I just extracted the first part to show you that you did notice them before they started shivering, right? As you had also stated, they were wearing only their combats, with no jackets. At this point I would have stopped them from playing and told them to get their jackets if they wished to continue.

I did check to see if they were alright and they kept saying they were so I thought they were. I did not see any cadets before they hiked to the forest as I was already there setting up. If I had I would have issued them something from stores.

I guess everyone learned a valuable lesson that night, for me it's always inspect cadets before they go into the bush and for those cadets who were cold hats,gloves and jackets are a must on bush nights.

 

[sgt_mandal]

And another thing to remember, whenever you are in the bush, no matter where you are, it WILL always get colder. You may know that, but maybe a lot of your subordinates might not. That might be a good message to pass along to them for ur next ex.

 

[condor888000]

Also, a good idea is to make sure that everyone is dressed for the worst. Pass that on to other seniors as well so that even if you aren't there it will get done.

 

[kincanucks]

I'm sorry sir, but what do you mean by this? Are you saying that being a cadet means that you are automatically a "kid"? As cadets we are taught to be mature and professional at all times.

Yes that is exactly what I am saying.  You can't be taught to be mature.  Professional? And that happens all the time doesn't it?
Where are the CICs and CLs while kids are running around the woods at night?