CADPAT for CIC

[ouyin2000]

i have to say that was very well said, Captain

as members of the Canadian Forces Reserve, the Army CIC should be fully entitled to receive the same kit that any other member receives. they should be (and by now are) allowed to wear the basic issue stuff that they will require.

it should be a given that they won't be needing helmets or tac vests or any of the other fancy schmancy stuff that a reg force member on deployment needs, as a CIC officer will most likely not be sent into a potential combat situation. But, IF they were sent into said situation, they should defently be allowed to receive any and all of the required kit for their job description.

 

[1feral1]

For Inch:

The right uniform for the right branch of service, and type of work. Maybe a different scale of issue for CIC? Say 2 CADFPAT combat sets, vice 4(?) . Either way personnel do have to be clothed, and one should never let his component of service cloud the issue. Four flt suits for every member is a little outragous.

Cold beers,

Wes

 

[Inch]

For Inch:

The right uniform for the right branch of service, and type of work. Maybe a different scale of issue for CIC? Say 2 CADFPAT combat sets, vice 4(?) . Either way personnel do have to be clothed, and one should never let his component of service cloud the issue. Four flt suits for every member is a little outragous.

Cold beers,

Wes

I agree Wes, my comment was simply to point out that you can't generalize the scale of issue for CICs based on what the rest of the CF gets (this isn't just directed at you but to everyone else posting in this thread too). Pilots have separate scales of issue, as do Infantry Officers and CELE officers and every other trade in the CF. So why wouldn't CICs have a different scale of issue based on what they require? Just because the PRes gets stuff doesn't mean a CIC should get it.

I agree, 2 sets of combats is all they need, if they're going to be training any longer than a couple weeks, then issue them a third set of combats. Having said that, I was only ever issued 2 sets of combats as a Reserve Armoured Crewman and I also only got 2 sets for BOTC parts one and two. So I'm not going to be convinced that they need 3 sets of anything considering what their job entails.

 

[Duke]

"What is the 'basic' issue of stuff for the CIC (army)?

I could see something along the lines of 2x CADPAT clothes, 2x combat boots, 1x jacket, 1x toque, 1x tilly hat, gloves, grey socks and poly-pro top and bottoms and 2 x green t-shirts."

I'm not sure what it is now, but back in the day it was only 1 pair of Mk III's. The other stuff sounds about right, except I believe it's 3 sets of CADPAT and the rubber rain gear.

Duke

 

[Burrows]

There we go... Thread beaten repeatedly.  Closed.  You know the drill... I will add replys that are PM'ed to me.

 

[Burrows]

Posted by Allan Luomala:

I think this sums up my attitude on this: in the perfect world, we would have enough of what we need. The fact of the matter, is that we are in an imperfect world, with shortages in almost every possible piece of gear there is. As an example, I wasn't even able to get a pair of Mk III's in my size, so I had to get authority to get a pair of Matterhorns via LPO (local purchase order). And at that, I had to use my "charm" to get it (ie. I wouldn't back down when told that I wouldn't get the kit I required).

If we had the money, I think everyone should get the Tac Vest (cadets included). What the hell!!!! But, we don't have the money, so priorities have to be made. So what if CADPAT is the order of the day for land forces. Does that mean, every one has to have everything in CADPAT, or they will be charged?Huh Well, common sense says no. I still see soldiers on this base wearing the "jean jacket" (old combat jacket). They manage to survive. We all did before CADPAT. However, CADPAT is designed for one reason, and looking cool isn't it.

I have to be prepared to go on operations, so that's why I have the Gucci gear. If there is a requirement for a CIC member to have the gear I have, I would love to hear it. Going to the office, and looking like the Reg Force isn't a (valid) reason. If it's so we all look the same, remember how well Unification worked? It didn't. We all look different, for one reason or another. And in this case, the almighty dollar speaks. It takes a long time to get the kit out, and there are precious little in the way of spares (when I first got the CADPAT, the first time I put it in the wash, the seams in 2 of my pants ripped from crotch to below the knees (made by the lowest bidder....) and I had to make do with 1 pair of pants for the duration of Op Grizzly, and I was on the side of a mountain for 10 days with one pair of servicable pants, because they wouldn't exchange the pants as there was no stock). There is even rumour that the guys posted here to CTC Gagetown from the Brigades that have already received their CADPAT goretex may have to turn it in so that they can issue it to soldiers that are deploying overseas that haven't received it yet. The guys here then would either get the older goretex, or maybe even the "jean jacket". You can imagine how happy they would be.

So, even if there are "only" 6600 CIC officers, and let's say 2000 are land element (I would hesitate to say "army"). At the"basic scale" of issue (3 per), that's 6000 pair of CADPAT. That's a shitload of CADPAT that SHOULD be in the system for soldiers going on deployment that would need it (remember my story about Op Grizzly.....). As it is, soldiers on deployment have to make do with less than ideal circumstances. I was issued a pair of goretex rainpants in Bosnia in '97 that were a 44 inch waist. I wear 36. So, they looked good in my barrack box, but served little use.

Yes, you may feel like second class citizens by being told by people like me that you should wear OD and like it, but I know that the powers that be will provide, but at what cost?Huh So that someone can "fit in" with the rest of the CF. Sorry, but my priorities lie elsewhere. And I should hope that the CF's would, as well....

Al

 

[Burrows]

From badpup:

Let me clarify things before I am "drawn and quartered" by the insolent around here.

When I tell CIC Officers to use the "old Boys Network", and Tim Bit Bribes I really mean:

BE NICE to the bin rats, treat them with the respect they deserve, as theirs is a boring and thankless job within the CF.
Horse trade within corps/units to get what you require, and help others.
Tell others of "Good deals, and ways to obtain what is not provided by DND/Sponsor.

Many of you might think that the DND fully supports Cadets: This is false, Cadets are mainly supported by the sponsor body/Parents group, and by the sweat, and countless unpaid hours of the Officer Staff, Civilian Instructors, and Volunteers. Pay for the Officers, and CI staff is not indicative of the hours that are put in. Volunteers are not paid

By Obtaining anything you want or need I mean, "Consumable" things such as batteries, string, tape, paper, .or empty ammo cans.
No where did I ever say that CIC should get the "Gucci Gear" there is no requirement for those things to operate a Corps/Squadron. What CIC do require as the MOST VISIBLE  members of the CF ... PERIOD... in all areas of this country is adequate and functional uniforms.

As a CIL Officer (predates CIC) I was first issued a uniform that was an embarassment to the service, and expected to wear that garbage? I bought another better one, first from a surplus store, then from base clothing when I could get there, and could afford to do it.
This kind of treatment is unacceptable, as a poor uniform brings discredit on all.Why did I have to purchase it at all?

Paper gets Lost: Read CONSUMABLES, have you never dealt with a base supply section?

Case in Point
A break in at the Corps, many things damaged,Many things stolen, by a prepared team, cutting through steel doors. Damage includes the Ammunition storage locker (Not taken or opened/separate area of building though heavily damaged).
Requesition: New locker/ new security padlocks
DENIED by Civilian  Supply Personelle at Supporting base, NO REQUIREMENT  :
Solution: make a friend at shops, have New/Better locker built to secure DND property (Ammunition)
Cost to taxpayers = $100 < cost to taxpayers if ammunition is lost>  :threat: Insurmountable

My last and major point applies to ALL CIC, REG PRes, Civilians and Cadets:

Treat others with the respect that all deserve, whether they are Miltary or Not, or whether you think they are or not. ;D