CAF Security Forces [Split from RCN Anti Drone Weapon]

[SupersonicMax]

How many F35s is Canada supposed to get?

88

 

[McG]

If you look at the DPU, protecting Canada and North America are number 1 and 2 priorities. How is the Army contributing to those priorities on a day-to-day basis?

So you stopped reading after 2 priorities?
And this foundational premise of your proposal was overlooked in your previous post because?

 

[Jarnhamar]

88

Thanks. That's more than I expected.

I read we have 89 CF18s. Do you know how many CF18s we have patrolling the skies of Europe watching out for dastardly Russians?

 

[SupersonicMax]

So you stopped reading after 2 priorities?

If you look at all priorities, and which element is supporting:

1 & 2: Protection of Canada/North America (RCAF/RCN)
3 & 4: Expeditionary ops (RCAF, RCN, CA, SOF)
5: Capacity Building (RCAF, RCN, CA, SOF but probably better served by SOF/CA)
6: Support to law enforcement agencies (SOF, RCN, RCAF)
7: Disaster Assistance (RCAF, CA, RCN)

There is a way to scale down what the Army does in priorities 3 and 4 to support priorities 1 and 2 in terms of security (including airfield defence).

 

[SupersonicMax]

Thanks. That's more than I expected.

I read we have 89 CF18s. Do you know how many CF18s we have patrolling the skies of Europe watching out for dastardly Russians?

We send detachments somewhat regularly, as part of the NATO rotations for eAP, and participate in NATO-Nations exercises under Op REASSURANCE yearly.

We’re limited in what we can do at the moment because of the staffing levels for fighter pilots. We don’t want to compromise our transition to the F-35 (which is people intensive) and our NORAD mandate (which is 24/7/365).

 

[Colin Parkinson]

How many of those 70k are medically fit? How many meet the CAF standards for the occupations they want? How many meet the security clearance requirements?

And how many are kicking the tires but not really interested?

I suspect that if you were able to speed up your processing and accept some risk, then yes a 3 fold increase in acceptance is quite possible. Some cows might have to be slaughtered though.

 

[dimsum]

Thanks. That's more than I expected.

I read we have 89 CF18s. Do you know how many CF18s we have patrolling the skies of Europe watching out for dastardly Russians?

That’s priority 3, after defence of Canada (Pri 1) and North America (Pri 2).

 

[Jarnhamar]

Neat thank you.

 

[Ostrozac]

If we can’t enrol or retain more, can’t we repurpose some of the CAF resources to security? Looking at what is currently being procured, seems like the Navy and the Air Force are both priorities for the CAF. Why not reorient some of the Army to Security? Why not keep 1 Infantry Regiment, 1 Armoured Regiment and 1 Artillery Regiment (each with a Battalion/Squadron/Battery in Edmonton/Gagetown/Valcartier)? Re-role the rest of the Army personnel to Security Forces. It would emotionally hurt people but rationally, why not?

The USAF/RAF model of a security force formed completely within the RCAF is probably what is being envisioned, as it is compatible with the model used by the RCAF’s two closest partners, but an alternate model where security is provided by personnel drawn from the Army might also be doable. This might look similar to the model used by USMC Security Forces — security for them isn’t a full career, it’s a specialty qualification followed by a several year posting, following which a marine normally returns to the fleet. Two battalion equivalents at a time might even do doable in the long term — but admittedly challenging in the short term as the Canadian Army wrestles with filling Latvia.

I guess the main question is whether we want security forces to be a full career path within the RCAF, or a task that army personnel do. The US in effect use both models, so both models could work if managed correctly. Either way, the job’s got to get done, and the MPs appear uninterested in reclaiming their historic role. In fact, under the current doctrine of police independence it might be difficult to order the Provost Marshal to accept a role they aren’t interested in.

 

[markppcli]

If we can’t enrol or retain more, can’t we repurpose some of the CAF resources to security? Looking at what is currently being procured, seems like the Navy and the Air Force are both priorities for the CAF. Why not reorient some of the Army to Security? Why not keep 1 Infantry Regiment, 1 Armoured Regiment and 1 Artillery Regiment (each with a Battalion/Squadron/Battery in Edmonton/Gagetown/Valcartier)? Re-role the rest of the Army personnel to Security Forces. It would emotionally hurt people but rationally, why not?

We would loose critical combat capabilities that our allies expect us to have. The Army contributes to the defence of Canada by contributing to the defence of NATO.

We send detachments somewhat regularly, as part of the NATO rotations for eAP, and participate in NATO-Nations exercises under Op REASSURANCE yearly.

When was the last CF18 air police mission? 2020?

 

[markppcli]

That’s priority 3, after defence of Canada (Pri 1) and North America (Pri 2).

I’d argue defence of Europe contributes directly to the defence of Canada.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I’d argue defence of Europe contributes directly to the defence of Canada.

Stop thinking strategically! It's better if we allow our enemies to get close so we can use our sharpened bits of fruit to skewer them silly!

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

If we can’t enrol or retain more, can’t we repurpose some of the CAF resources to security? Looking at what is currently being procured, seems like the Navy and the Air Force are both priorities for the CAF. Why not reorient some of the Army to Security? Why not keep 1 Infantry Regiment, 1 Armoured Regiment and 1 Artillery Regiment (each with a Battalion/Squadron/Battery in Edmonton/Gagetown/Valcartier)? Re-role the rest of the Army personnel to Security Forces. It would emotionally hurt people but rationally, why not?

But who is going to fill sandbags when Jack & Jill's home floods or Gagandeep & Vidya need their driveway shoveled in Toronto

The Army is the favored GD pool of GoC, that trumps everything else.

 

[markppcli]

Stop thinking strategically! It's better if we allow our enemies to get close so we can use our sharpened bits of fruit to skewer them silly!

Hey I’m all for an increase to the RCN and RCAF, but I think we still need to keep our place in NATO secure - especially now. That means we need an army that can do things beyond guard an air field.

 

[suffolkowner]

We would loose critical combat capabilities that our allies expect us to have. The Army contributes to the defence of Canada by contributing to the defence of NATO.



When was the last CF18 air police mission? 2020?

Canada’s Air Task Force – Romania begins NATO Air Policing mission - Canada.ca

As part of Canada’s support to NATO and European security, Air Task Force Romania (ATF-R) assumed NATO enhanced Air Policing duties today at a ceremony at Mihail Kogălniceanu Air Base, alongside the Romanian Air Force, and other allies.

www.canada.ca

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Hey I’m all for an increase to the RCN and RCAF, but I think we still need to keep our place in NATO secure - especially now. That means we need an army that can do things beyond guard an air field.

Yep, and guarding an airfield isn't a capability, it's a task.

 

[markppcli]

Canada’s Air Task Force – Romania begins NATO Air Policing mission - Canada.ca

As part of Canada’s support to NATO and European security, Air Task Force Romania (ATF-R) assumed NATO enhanced Air Policing duties today at a ceremony at Mihail Kogălniceanu Air Base, alongside the Romanian Air Force, and other allies.

www.canada.ca

TDIL

 

[suffolkowner]

TDIL

had to google that acronym and uhh i dont think it means what the first option that came up was

 

[Quirky]

We would loose critical combat capabilities that our allies expect us to have.

What is the current combat capability of the Army now? Losing a couple hundred Army personnel for Airfield security won't make a lick of difference in our contribution to NATO in Europe.

That wasn’t good enough for nukes, and it won’t be good enough for 5th generation fighters.

We shall see.... It's one thing to find people to do these tasks, but good luck stuffing more people into places like Comox, where accommodations are already limited. I don't imagine airfield security will be more than a base-pay trade (if it becomes one), these people will have no where to live.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Yep, and guarding an airfield isn't a capability, it's a task.

It is a task that is part of capabilities.

Hey I’m all for an increase to the RCN and RCAF, but I think we still need to keep our place in NATO secure - especially now. That means we need an army that can do things beyond guard an air field.

We can keep our place secure within NATO with RCAF, RCN and a smaller CA.

We would loose critical combat capabilities that our allies expect us to have.

Which combat capabilities are critical and why? Where are those stated? Also, reducing in size doesn’t mean losing capabilities, it means we can’t employ them for as long periods or in as big numbers.

Ultimately, it is a zero-sum game so we have to prioritize. And operations to defend Canada and North America will always prime over deployments overseas.