CAF Specialist Pay [Spec Pay]- All Trades [MERGED]

[17thRecceSgt]

I've been a LS for 2 years, three guys on my course have maxed out IPC for LS.  Your not going to loose money its just less than expected now.  Really when you get down to it though its still crappy. 

So mud if this works like they are saying you will be CPL max level 4 till you graduate and then will shift back to CPL basic with spec pay.  If you look at the pay scale that is 86$ a month more before taxes.

Again we're not loosing money.  The CF is starting to pinch pennies now if they are pulling stuff like this.

Sorry to darken you Monday 

Actually, to me its a huge deal.  If/when I sign my contract with CFRC, I will DEFINTELY be askings this question.  If they give me IPC 4, they give me it.  Once its on paper as a CONTRACT...good luck taking it.  maybe this will be different for me cause I am a CT.

AND...not to darken your Monday...but...the difference between Cpl Base Spec 1 and Cpl 4 Spec 1 is close to $400...thats the way I look at it.

This is crap, and I question the ability of this to stand up to a redress.  IPC is "how much time you have in rank" and how do you take THAT away from someone?

Well, the CF can expect some loyalty from their people over this one!  a slap in the face and the CoC should be howling at NDHQ.  Specially the CWO/CP01s.

 

[Navy_Blue]

That's what I thought too but if you look at it through the eyes of bureaucrats my rank was LS MAREL and will soon be LS ET.  Hence back to square one.  I would guess that's how they see it and justify this move.

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Maybe so.  I would think that for "morale and GAFF", they would want to make people happy not...the other way (pissed off!)  >

But back to reality...

 

[Sub_Guy]

The only message I could locate talking about this issue is CANFORGEN 111/04.  I just hope that this isn't a case of people running wild spreading rumours about pay backs and all that jazz....... Because that never happens in the military right?

 

[Navalsnpr]

There is no message out on the street for this yet.

There won't be as the policy was changed a couple of years ago.

 

[Navy_Blue]

Get this!

The stokers that have got they're Cert 3 between 2004 and now are expected to pay back the difference too.  It just keeps getting better and better.  From what they are saying at the school the average would be $3800.  Our div cell is telling us we're lucky the stokers are going to fight this.  I'm just keeping my fingers crossed.   Its ridiculous its all coming out after the fact, after everyone has been paid like this for two years.  TIme to hang some pay clerks....just kidding  ;D

What a kick in the sack  :rage:

 

[navymich]

WOW, that is just nasty, no that's beyond nasty.  Can't say the words on here unfortunately, but I am sure that anyone else following this thread is sure of a couple.

This is really going to be a fight.  Keep us posted.

 

[NavyShooter]

Thank you for the clarification on this.  It doesn't effect me, but it is nice to stay on top of stuff like this in the fleet.  Maybe now that the word is finally getting out about this, changes will be made.  Highly unlikely I know, but one can always hope.

I have been hearing the rumour about more IPC levels for LS for years now.  On one hand, it would be good to have, similar to Lt(N) where you can end up being for years.  But knowing the luck, they will just keep the same pay difference from basic to 8, that they have from basic to 4 and just make the the increases smaller.  But that's another topic for discussion.  ;D

Having more IPC levels will not make you get more money.

The upper and lower IPC levels will not change.  So your maximum pay level will remain the same.  It'll just take you twice as long to get there.

As an example: consider, if you have 4 IPC Levels, $1000, 1200, 1400, and $1600.  (Numbers chosen for simplicity in explanation.)

In your first year, you make $12,000

In your second year, you get $14,400

In your third year, you get $16,800

In your fourth year, you get $19,200

After your 4th year, you've made a total of $62,400


Consider if you break those 4 levels into 7.    (I'm using 7 to keep the math simpler.)

Your first level will still be the $1000, and the top level will still be $1600. 

Here are your pay levels:

Year 1:  $1000
Year 2:  $1100
Year 3:  $1200
Year 4:  $1300
Year 5:  $1400
Year 6:  $1500
Year 7:  $1600

So, in year 1, you still make $12,000

In year 2, you make $13,200

In year 3, you make $14,400

In year 4, you make $15,600

In year 5, you make $16,800

In year 6, you make $18,000

In year 7, you make $19,200


So, looking at the numbers, by the end of year 4, with more IPC levels, you have made $55,200.  This is $7200 LESS than you'd have made with only 4 incentive levels.

Carrying this on to year 7:

With 4 IPC's your total income would be :  $120,000

With 7 IPC's, your total income after 7 years would be:  $109,200

This means that in this limited example, you'd have made $10,800 less over the duration of your 7 IPC's than you would have if you'd only had 4 IPC's.

Having more incentive levels means LESS money in our pockets, because it'll take longer to get to a higher level of income.

NavyShooter

 

[Navy_Blue]

I wouldn't want to see them add more IPC's by dividing up what we have more.  Add more to the top  ;D  Then everyone has to have the top end move up...so not very likely. 

Anyone notice if the Army and Airforce have clued into this yet??

 

[navymich]

I haven't heard anything about Army/Airforce noticing or not.  Mud is Army, but is doing CT into Airforce, so he has noticed, as seen.  Maybe we should get this thread moved somewhere else so it is more noticeable?  I am curious as to how they are taking the news, or even if it has been brought to their attention yet.

 

[17thRecceSgt]

I am going to talk to the CFRC on Friday about this...my MCC is a very good straight forward Capt (Army) and I am sure he will have/get an answer for me.

I am one of the Army going Air Force types to 226 so this is particularly interesting to me.  As a referenece, I believe MP recruits are getting Cpl Base w/spec 1 on completion of BMQ!  I have a buddy how just went MP a year or two ago and when I can I will ask him...

 

[Sub_Guy]

There is still something funny about all of this..............seems to be a lot of hear say (in ref to paying back).  I will be surprised if that happens

 

[Navy_Blue]

For anyone who cares:

Its called

Specialist Pay Occupational Implementation Plan (OSIP) For NCMS.  It's on the DIN just do a search in quotes. 

This confirms this is forces wide.

The thing is why has it taken two years for some officer or pay clerk to read this crap.  Now it is our fault we didn't know??

There are 2 stoker up here who got their Cert 3 around the same time.  One just before this came into effect one two weeks after.  The later owes DND over $3000. 

I don't know why we think its so sketchy do we not remember sea pay audits???

 

[aesop081]

For anyone who cares:

Its called

Specialist Pay Occupational Implementation Plan (OSIP) For NCMS.  It's on the DIN just do a search in quotes. 

This confirms this is forces wide.

The thing is why has it taken two years for some officer or pay clerk to read this crap.  Now it is our fault we didn't know??

There are 2 stoker up here who got their Cert 3 around the same time.  One just before this came into effect one two weeks after.  The later owes DND over $3000. 

I don't know why we think its so sketchy do we not remember sea pay audits???

I remustered in 2004 and was in the first batch to be impacted by the new policy.  thank god for grandfather clauses

 

[crackshot17]

Just got my OT and am off to Halifax for NE TECH training.  Was a MCPL knocking me down to LS IPC 4, accordign to this I will be IPC4 for the course and then until my 5's are over...what then, bumped back down to IPC 0 with Spec.  What a load, bad enough I have to lose my pay to OT but lose it again later when I get more education and qualifications.....NOT RIGHT....

 

[Navalsnpr]

Was a MCPL knocking me down to LS IPC 4, according to this I will be IPC4 for the course and then until my 5's are over...what then, bumped back down to IPC 0 with Spec. 

Unfortunately you have it bang on. Here is how it will go...

You just CT'ed to NET, and due to your previous rank being MCpl, your new rank is LS IPC4 -Standard ($4303/Month). Once you attain your QL5 certification in your new trade, there will be an update in the pay system to change your pay to LS IPC Basic - Spec 1 ($4386/Month).

 

[17thRecceSgt]

I still don't know how they can (legally?) drop your IPC.  Has this ever been challenged with a redress?  I thought the only time  you lost your IPC was a trip to Club Ed.  In that case, it makes sense, you are being punished, right? 

This will be interesting for me, I am CTing to 226 ATIS.  I am going to get an offer, and was told to expect Cpl IPC 4.  So when I finish POET and ATIS Apprentice, and OJT (which I am assuming you need to get Spec 1), then they are going to bump me back to IPC 0?  I can't see how they will be able to, when THEY are making an offer IPC 4 because of all my time in.  And, if loosing your IPC is part of punishment for something that you would go to Club Ed for...I can't see how this "policy" would stand up to a redress. 

It's like, if you have a recruit that screws up.  You can't do something to him for "extra's" or "corrective training" that is part of QR & O Vol.2, Table 108.11, Powers of Punishment for Delegated Officers.  Because those are punishments, he hasn't been charged and found quilty of a service offence.  Makin' any sense?  So stripping someone's IPC is the same.

I still think, either way, its a slap in the face and the CF should shake their head for f**k sakes.

 

[NavyShooter]

Just as we're trying to retain personnel, they come up with a way to peeve new trainees and convince them once again that the system is against them.

*sigh*

How the heck do they plan to get 20+ thousand people in, and how do they plan to retain them if they keep pennypinching like this?

NS

 

[17thRecceSgt]

NS

As per my earlier post, I think this is part of the old "FRP Force Reduction Plan" of a decade ago.  Tick people off, and watch them get out, and take their training and "corporate knowledge" with them for less BS, more money at some civie job.

Oh, on top of that, they can't get  Spec until they are 5 qual'd, so put ALL the new recruits in PAT platoons for 6-18 months of their BE.  That is saving money now too!  Gosh this system is working! 

;D

 

[Navalsnpr]

I still don't know how they can (legally?) drop your IPC.  Has this ever been challenged with a redress?

I know of a member who submitted a redress around 4 months ago and he received word back that it was denied last month.