CAF Specialist Pay [Spec Pay]- All Trades [MERGED]

[korgano]

I want to know if there are any specialty courses in the Artillery that would qualify me for spec pay. I was told by my unit pay clerk that there are no spec pay trades in the artillery, but I know that there are specialty courses available. (Basic arty Tech being one of them).

So, what does it take to get spec pay?

 

[McG]

You neeed to have a technical job, requiring a significant amount of training, with skills easily transferable to the civi world . . . it is a sort of "please don‘t leave the CF" pay.

 

[RCA]

Confirming that no Arty trades are consdered specilists (although most of us would argue the point).

Most spec pays are in the air force and comms trades (like the IT trades). No *** in the grass types are consdered.

And the Arty tech crse is actually a trade course (ie QL4) for s gunners.

 

[mod13]

Can anybody tell me why and how certain trades recieve Spec pay while other trades doing similar or more work do not recieve these extra dollars. When was the last time the military did a review as to why these trades recieve this extra money.

Please do not tell me it is related to retention issues or being on par with civilian pay. If that was the fact there would be a lot more trades with Spec pay and a few that have it would and should be dropped.

As for extra training, that doesn‘t seem to wash either.

 

[klumanth]

It has everything to do with training and retention. In the instance of an LCIS Tech, it‘s a lot cheaper to pay us the extra bucks than to have people leaving for the civy world and have to train new LCIS Techs. People still do leave for the civy world and they do quite well. If you‘re a decent tech you‘ll have a list of certifications as long as your arm within a few years. They put literally ****loads of money into us and it‘s just not cost effective to have us walk away because we‘re not being payed enough.

 

[mod13]

I would have to agree with you partially. ATIS, LCIS...ect are trades where training and money issues definitly hinder retention, therefore I feel Spec pay is warranted.

But what about a Vehicle Tech, a CPL with a Heavey Duty Ticket, paid for by the military, can get out and make double what he is making in the CF. A Lineman can get out and make almost double what they make in the CF. The list could go on, then there are 291ers, are they paid more simply beacause of there security clearance, or a second language? If they are they better start dishing out the cash, I know a lot of people cleared Top Secret or better that know a second language!

All I am asking is when was the last time they reviewed the situation, and what is the criteria for Spec Pay?

 

[klumanth]

I agree that there are more trades that need spec pay. From the CF point of view though, they‘re not going to give spec pay until retention becomes a problem. They‘re talking about spec pay for Sig Ops now because retention has been a problem. 291ers get spec pay because the training is long and costly. As well, anyone that is often privy to top secret material needs to be paid fairly well so they‘re not tempted to sell secrets.

I don‘t think there is any actual criteria for a trade to have spec pay. From what I‘ve seen, they give it out when retention becomes a serious problem.

 

[shado_wolf]

Hello,

Can someone tell me if the issue of Sig Ops getting spec pay soon truth or fiction? I am waiting for my offer which hopefully should come in the next couple weeks and to make a long story short I just switched from LCIS to Sig as LCIS isn‘t open now. I am hoping to remuster after 3 years or so. But if I move to spec pay at Sigs I may not.....

Thanks,
Dylan

PS
At my interview I asked the career counciler (sp?) but he hadn‘t heard of that at all.....

Edit
And I just asked a friend who is a Sig Op and he said they are always talkin bout it but doesn‘t think they‘ll do before he finishes his 14 years he has left.

 

[klumanth]

I‘ve heard many people swear it‘s the truth and chances are good but like anything else in the army, don‘t count on it. An important thing to note is that spec pay does not take effect until you reach the rank of corporal so it won‘t make a difference for your first four years.

 

[radop211tc]

Personally, I think it is an Urban Myth, I had heard it mentioned when I was in,years ago.
Until, it shows up in your Bank Account, I wouldnt bank on it.

Tc...
VVV

 

[poetboy]

As of 30th July, 2004, if you are not a Cpl in a "Spec" trade already making spec pay, you will no longer be eligible for spec pay until you are fully QL5 qualified effective 30, August 2004.
This means all of us people halfway through POET in Kingston and those waiting training in Borden have joined the CF anticipating 3 years of hard work and study in order to receive the reward of "Spec Pay" have been deceived! People receiving their Cpl stripes this September will NOT get spec pay yet people promoted in July WILL. Argghhhh. Calculating the time it iwll take to become QL5 qulaified and the cost of inflation/annual increases, the financial cost to technicians will be approximately $20,000 each, not including the reduction in benefits and pension. Given that most people will be barely QL3 if that when their initial contract expires, I am wondering how many people are going to consider resigning the military's gracious offer of cooks pay for specialist technicians work? I am amazed that after all of the studies identifying the need for an incentive package to retain and recruit technicians, escpecially FCS Techs, that now of all times they have introduced a wage rollback to the lowest paid members of the Forces?
Keep in mind this has no affect on Privates pay 1 - 3, only Corporals pay in Specialist 1 trades like FCS, AVS, ATIS etc.
What do you guys think?

 

[mazda3mazdaspeed]

Could you please tell me what FCS, AVS, and ATIS stands for? I've been trying to figure this out for quite some time. Thanks all!

 

[poetboy]

FCS = Fire Control Systems Technician (make munitions land where they're supposed to!)
AVS = Avionics Systems Technician (make planes electronics work properly)
ATIS = Aerospace Telecommunications Informations Systems (satelite comms, radar, Airport comms)

They are all available on the DND site too

 

[Armymedic]

The problem isn't that you won't be entitlted the pay.

The problem is that it takes trades that long to get the course to get the level of knowledge that deserves the pay...

Lengthy waits are a problem in all trades...yours just has a financial penalty to it now.

(ps, if you look in the pay guide, ranks are tied to qualifications pte=QL 3, Cpl=QL 5a, MCpl=5b)

 

[poetboy]

The problem is, the current standard has been that Cpl has been granted in the fourth year of service and Spec Pay has been paid to all persons serving in a spec trade or training such trade until fully qualified. This has been done as an incentive to retain and recruit new technicians to the under staffed MOC's. Yes the long waits for courses are an issue, but the main problem here is going to be the incentive for a person to choose a trade that is considerably more difficult WELL before QL5 level for the same pay as standard trades. The average tech will now be looking at 5-8 years of standard pay and high level work/training before receiving the "spec pay" that everyone else has already been receiving for the same work. What I am trying to say is that there should be some form of remuneration for the advanced work and schooling we are required to do in the technicians trades compared to non skilled trades prior to the QL5 level.

 

[Armymedic]

What I am trying to say is that there should be some form of remuneration for the advanced work and schooling we are required to do in the technicians trades compared to non skilled trades prior to the QL5 level.

And what clearly defined line would that be, entry, QL 3?

There must be an incentive to stay after gaining knowledge and experience.

 

[poetboy]

I agree! I think that the appropriate level for spec pay should remain where it has been, at the fourth year or Cpl incentive pay level. This is usually where most people that are new to the CF have finished or are close to finishing their 3's and also provides an incentive for OT's into a flagged trade. Pushing it into the 7th to 8th year is going to remove a lot of the incentive part of the training. Consider that when most people are at the end of their initial contract, having that "spec pay" carrot an inch in front of their nose is a great incentive to get someone to resign. And let's face it, the work being doen by technicians in those first 7 - 8 years is not brainless papershuffling. We are not untrained lackeys incapable of carrying out skilled repairs and maintenance. Although you may not be QL5'd you can still perform most tasks with little supervision and guidance.

 

[Yard Ape]

QL 5a being journeyman, if you left before getting that course under your belt you would be short of the qualifications someone might get by going through college.  Civi street likely will not give you full recognition of your training.

So, why pay spec pay to someone who does not yet have the qualifications might inspire a civillian employer to offer him more?

 

[Bert]

Depending on the employer and the position, I don't think civilian employers have a problem
drawing parallels between the military training system and the civilian education.  In some
cases its equivalent and in others its not.  Even in the civilian world, Ontario education is not
recognized well in Alberta and vice versa without inter-provincial certification or a
provincial AEETT.

Another point that makes life difficult to attain Cpl spec pay is that some units don't manage
OJT or rotational work well leading to QL5.  If a Cpl gets stuck in a section and the supervisor
doesn't note it to the WO, then the member stays in limbo for awhile and it slows the process.

 

[Yard Ape]

No, I don't think civillian employers object to drawing parallels, but without the journyman qualification there is not much to parallel to.