CAN Enhanced (Permanent?) Fwd Presence in Latvia

[Humphrey Bogart]

So the bases we had in Europe post Cold War were the product of decades of investment and previous folks laying the groundwork.

Also, there was a hell of an incentive to head to German for a 4 year stint, as the benefits were well established both financially and "score, Eurotrip!" for a lot of spouses.

In 2022, the eFP set up is currently not suitable for posting our members or families for a CMBG or a Wing. We have trouble maintaining, let alone building, infrastructure in Canada for our current members. Also, the CAF has changed in that spouse X has a career and doesn't take kindly to dropping it all to live in Eastern Europe for 4 years; hell we cant even get folks to move to Kingston for that very reason.Factor in building a CFB from scratch in Latvia and the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

Furthermore, who is going to flesh out the new organizations when we're already dying for folks to full out the brigades/wings we have here? I'm sure Comd 1 CMBG would be tickled pink to find out he's short 1 x Inf Bn, 1 x Armd/Eng Sqn, Atts and Dets from QGET, as well as Svc Bn to flesh out the new ORBAT in Latvia during the Lentus season. Echo that across 2/5 CMBG, or any various RCAF establishments and it's the same frustration.

The reforms made in 1994 sacrificed 30 years of capabilities and facilities for momentary gain. Here we are 28 years later and it's going to take another 30 to recoup the losses; and that's if we decide to regain those capabilities back.

I am extremely doubtful I will see it while I still wear the uniform.

We aren't regaining capabilities, there has been a steady bleed over the past 30-40 years. Even when we were conducting combat operations in Afghanistan, we were bleeding capability elsewhere cough RCN cough.

We are now so far behind, literally, that we will not recover that capability and we are now lacking in other areas.

Couple this with the skill fade and loss of institutional experience and we are going to have an increasingly less capable Armed Forces.

 

[brihard]

Maybe our troops just can’t sing worth shit?

 

[ueo]

Maybe our troops just can’t sing worth shit?

My thought exactly!

 

[QV]

We aren't regaining capabilities, there has been a steady bleed over the past 30-40 years. Even when we were conducting combat operations in Afghanistan, we were bleeding capability elsewhere cough RCN cough.

We are now so far behind, literally, that we will not recover that capability and we are now lacking in other areas.

Couple this with the skill fade and loss of institutional experience and we are going to have an increasingly less capable Armed Forces.

Add in the loss of trust and respect for the institution (sexual misconduct or vaccine mandates). They have all contributed to the decline.

 

[FJAG]

Maybe our troops just can’t sing worth shit?

There's a lot of truth in that. Other than a rousing chorus of "North Atlantic Squadron" when getting pissed, we don't sing much.

When I was working with the Germans they once gave me a copy of their Army's song book - it comes in a nice little pocket edition with an olive drab cover - that contains about twenty-five military marching songs that go back to Frederick the Great.

If you see European troops marching in the field, Germans, French, Spanish, they all sing. Americans do that silly cadence stuff but we don't even do that.

Maybe its because we're shy. Maybe its because in the old British Army the rank and file was to be seen and not heard.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Serious question: with all the concerns over manpower shortfalls would we have greater or fewer problems if we were to properly position and supply a base in Europe as we did with 4 wing prior to the gulf war? I totally appreciate the extra costs of shipping families offshore (been there and done that), providing schooling and medical facilities, and myriad other issues that all cost money but the notion of having family nearby vs. saying goodbye for six months might solve other problems?? Just asking

 

[OldSolduer]

OK a new term I invented today:

A non gender specific person who displays female traits. (Or male traits if you will)

I am going to hell aren't I?

 

[Blackadder1916]

There's a lot of truth in that. Other than a rousing chorus of "North Atlantic Squadron" when getting pissed, we don't sing much.

When I was working with the Germans they once gave me a copy of their Army's song book - it comes in a nice little pocket edition with an olive drab cover - that contains about twenty-five military marching songs that go back to Frederick the Great.

If you see European troops marching in the field, Germans, French, Spanish, they all sing. Americans do that silly cadence stuff but we don't even do that.

Maybe its because we're shy. Maybe its because in the old British Army the rank and file was to be seen and not heard.

It's not as if there hadn't been, in the past, some under-employed, over-enthusiastic staff officer who probably took an off-hand comment by a superior about the vocalization of allied nations' soldiers and produced this gem.

 

[FJAG]

Is "North Atlantic Squadron" included?

 

[Weinie]

Is "North Atlantic Squadron" included?

And "Swing Low Sweet Chariot"

 

[brihard]

Good Ship Venus is unquestionably super cancelled…

 

[Blackadder1916]

Is "North Atlantic Squadron" included?

Yes, it was. The index.



The booklet has only the words, no music.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

There's a lot of truth in that. Other than a rousing chorus of "North Atlantic Squadron" when getting pissed, we don't sing much.

When I was working with the Germans they once gave me a copy of their Army's song book - it comes in a nice little pocket edition with an olive drab cover - that contains about twenty-five military marching songs that go back to Frederick the Great.

If you see European troops marching in the field, Germans, French, Spanish, they all sing. Americans do that silly cadence stuff but we don't even do that.

Maybe its because we're shy. Maybe its because in the old British Army the rank and file was to be seen and not heard.

Long time ago, but when I was with 3 PPCLI from '74-79 we used sing when we matched all the time.

 

[GR66]

Long time ago, but when I was with 3 PPCLI from '74-79 we used sing when we matched all the time.

I believe the Geneva Conventions were specifically amended to prevent that from continuing!

 

[MilEME09]

I believe the Geneva Conventions were specifically amended to prevent that from continuing!

As well as the criminal code of Canada, something about cruel and unusual punishment

 

[markppcli]

Is "North Atlantic Squadron" included?

I have never heard of this song

 

[dapaterson]

Away, away with the fife and drum...

 

[FJAG]

I have never heard of this song

Really?

"Away, away with the fife and drum; here we come; full of the rum; looking for ...."

Many an evening spent drinking in quarters, playing Euchre or Poker and singing all the little ditties. Not really a marching song.

Ah, yeah beat me too it. @dapaterson

 

[FJAG]

Getting back to the topic of eFP Latvia, just came across a message of A Battery's rotation back from Latvia where it has been part of a multi-national artillery group consisting of:

- Aztec Battery, 3-29 FA - US - M109A6;

- Bison Battery, Michalovce Artillery Bn - Slovakia - SpGH Zusana

- Miura Battery, RACA 11 - Spain - M109A5

- A Battery, 1 RCHA - Canada - M777

(note who is the odd man out supporting a mech force with a towed gun)

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=540728967943657

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=792387985325978

 

[markppcli]

Getting back to the topic of eFP Latvia, just came across a message of A Battery's rotation back from Latvia where it has been part of a multi-national artillery group consisting of:

- Aztec Battery, 3-29 FA - US - M109A6;

- Bison Battery, Michalovce Artillery Bn - Slovakia - SpGH Zusana

- Miura Battery, RACA 11 - Spain - M109A5

- A Battery, 1 RCHA - Canada - M777

(note who is the odd man out supporting a mech force with a towed gun)

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=540728967943657

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=792387985325978

To ignore the various mortars in the BG