CAN Secur/Int Committee: Time to Fix RCMP Federal Policing pgm

[OldSolduer]

Northern Manitoba for example is more 1 to 800. The territorial cop to pop is diluted its own ways- fly in detachment of 90 people with three police officers skews things wildly.

The sheer size of this country presents challenges that others don`t have. I was in South Indian Lake Mb and two Mounties in rubber boots patrolled that rez - no there were no sheep there.

 

[Booter]

lol. It gets muddy my man. Lol

 

[RedFive]

Red, slight tangent…wow, I thought Peel, York and Durham consistently pulled in top coin…maybe their CBA is coming due soon?

I can only speak to my area, but prior to our union and CBA the local munis would harvest newly trained Mounties with two years experience (two years being the cut off for when the RCMP could come after you for the cost of Depot if you quit) by the dozens for no other reason that the highest cost of living in Canada and the pay differential. Now that we're competitive the taps turned off and the local munis are having to work a lot harder to steal experienced officers and their recruiting efforts for new members are growing as they can't steal as many of us. Over the years it probably saved the likes of Vancouver Police tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars plucking two year Mounties out of their LMD Detachments and only having to kit them out.

I also think the Justice Institute of BC is facing a bit of a reckoning as they don't have the ability to grow much capacity there and the need is growing thanks to Surrey Police and the waves of experienced Mounties going muni drying up.

 

[FSTO]

Provinces are wondering if they should be seriously considering a Provincial Police Force (my headline)?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rcmp-contracts-uncertainty-mass-casualty-1.7143722

To the Mountie members on this board, what is the rumour mill regarding this issue (7 years to go)?

 

[Kirkhill]

Provinces are wondering if they should be seriously considering a Provincial Police Force (my headline)?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rcmp-contracts-uncertainty-mass-casualty-1.7143722

To the Mountie members on this board, what is the rumour mill regarding this issue (7 years to go)?

Time to recreate the Dominion Police alongside the Mounties? Let the Mounties return to their Territorial duties of securing territory while enforcing the law on the side.

If I understand the notion behind civilian policing it is that the police are first are foremost members of the local community in good standing with the locals.

 

[Booter]

Provinces are wondering if they should be seriously considering a Provincial Police Force (my headline)?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rcmp-contracts-uncertainty-mass-casualty-1.7143722

To the Mountie members on this board, what is the rumour mill regarding this issue (7 years to go)?

I would suggest that the provinces know more than they are letting on. The belief is we will see a quickening of municipalities creating their own and regional forces. There are numerous conversations going on with it.

Provinces want a he government to commit to assisting them with the costs- such as giving them the relief they get for choosing the Mounties for any force they choose.

Kirkhill- your community comment only works if communities generate police officers- which the majority do not.

It is the nature of the new cops to move and change locations several times

 

[brihard]

I would suggest that the provinces know more than they are letting on. The belief is we will see a quickening of municipalities creating their own and regional forces. There are numerous conversations going on with it.

Provinces want a he government to commit to assisting them with the costs- such as giving them the relief they get for choosing the Mounties for any force they choose.

Communities want their own police services, but they don’t want their own bill.

 

[Kirkhill]

Kirkhill- your community comment only works if communities generate police officers- which the majority do not.

Interesting...

Related to crowd control issues? Among other things?

 

[RangerRay]

Most cops I know who came from smaller towns don’t want to be the cop in their hometown. That would mean putting their old high school friends in jail.

 

[lenaitch]

Most cops I know who came from smaller towns don’t want to be the cop in their hometown. That would mean putting their old high school friends in jail.

And/or their relatives.

As always, the federal territories are wondering where they will be when the music stops.

If the RCMP became a solely federal policing service, once the transitional staffing issues settle down, does anybody think the funding and staffing would be in any better shape? With shrunken mandate and staffing comes a shrunken budget.

 

[OldSolduer]

Communities want their own police services, but they don’t want their own bill.

The Town of Altona runs very well. A small town force and they police another small town, Pilot Mound I think.
Most of the cops are locals. And they have a nasty rez close plus the border is close. It’s an interesting mix .

 

[lenaitch]

The Town of Altona runs very well. A small town force and they police another small town, Pilot Mound I think.
Most of the cops are locals. And they have a nasty rez close plus the border is close. It’s an interesting mix .

The best I could tell from the website is that it looks to be five members. The problem with all small municipal services is they are predicated on very little of consequence happening. For the vast majority of the time they are right, but when the poo hits the HVAC, they simply can't hope to handle it. So long as larger municipal service or, in Manitoba's case, the RCMP, is there to jump in, life carries on and the townsfolk are happy with their little service.

I also wonder what their property taxes are. A buddy lived in a small NS town with its own very small PS. I'm sure there were other factors at play but his taxes were a big factor in them moving (I think he said about $7K/yr.).

When I was with the OPP, we instituted and new major crime policy where our branch was called in by a municipal service. It stated that we took complete ownership and leadership of the case, including all evidence. One town chief complained that he would "loose control" of the case. We had a recent homicide in his town and he had committed a grand total of one part-time member to the investigation. He really liked showing up a press conferences though, dressed up like Manuel Noriega.

The reality is if the RCMP leave the provinces, they will have to set up a provincial service, large regional services, or engineer some kind of US-style Department of Public Safety/Bureau of Criminal Investigations at the provincial to cover the really expensive and resource-intensive stuff that individual services simply can't support.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Nova Scotia Guard, New Department Will Improve Emergency Readiness​

Nova Scotia Guard, New Department Will Improve Emergency Readiness

news.novascotia.ca

Not a police force, but a move to take a more independent response to strife.

I think NS has been pretty soured with its received product by the RCMP, and rightfully so. There is defiantly still a strong sentiment here to eject the RCMP and create something ourselves.

 

[brihard]

Nova Scotia Guard, New Department Will Improve Emergency Readiness​

Nova Scotia Guard, New Department Will Improve Emergency Readiness

news.novascotia.ca

Not a police force, but a move to take a more independent response to strife.

I think NS has been pretty soured with its received product by the RCMP, and rightfully so. There is defiantly still a strong sentiment here to eject the RCMP and create something ourselves.

They’re describing a task set much greater than a part time volunteer organization. It’ll be interesting to see what exactly gets cobbled together there, and what sort of situations they’ll be responsible for. But good o. The province for stepping up to try something. It doesn’t answer their policing concerns at all, but hopefully would be of value in disaster situations.

 

[Kirkhill]

They’re describing a task set much greater than a part time volunteer organization. It’ll be interesting to see what exactly gets cobbled together there, and what sort of situations they’ll be responsible for. But good o. The province for stepping up to try something. It doesn’t answer their policing concerns at all, but hopefully would be of value in disaster situations.

Alaska's Air National Guard, which a lot of us looked to as a useful model, is having difficulty with full-time part-time volunteers.

‘Mission failure across the board’: Officials warn staff changes will devastate Alaska’s Air National Guard

Dozens of Guard members say they will quit rather than see their salaries and benefits diminished under a new federal directive, which could upend national security missions based in Alaska.

www.adn.com

 

[Booter]

The best I could tell from the website is that it looks to be five members. The problem with all small municipal services is they are predicated on very little of consequence happening. For the vast majority of the time they are right, but when the poo hits the HVAC, they simply can't hope to handle it. So long as larger municipal service or, in Manitoba's case, the RCMP, is there to jump in, life carries on and the townsfolk are happy with their little service.

I also wonder what their property taxes are. A buddy lived in a small NS town with its own very small PS. I'm sure there were other factors at play but his taxes were a big factor in them moving (I think he said about $7K/yr.).

When I was with the OPP, we instituted and new major crime policy where our branch was called in by a municipal service. It stated that we took complete ownership and leadership of the case, including all evidence. One town chief complained that he would "loose control" of the case. We had a recent homicide in his town and he had committed a grand total of one part-time member to the investigation. He really liked showing up a press conferences though, dressed up like Manuel Noriega.

The reality is if the RCMP leave the provinces, they will have to set up a provincial service, large regional services, or engineer some kind of US-style Department of Public Safety/Bureau of Criminal Investigations at the provincial to cover the really expensive and resource-intensive stuff that individual services simply can't support.

Take a few small hypothetical small services- that have issues with each other- they all do- give them a reduced call volume. And put them against a series of calls for service like generated in NS.

An absolute fire sale.

 

[Booter]

They’re describing a task set much greater than a part time volunteer organization. It’ll be interesting to see what exactly gets cobbled together there, and what sort of situations they’ll be responsible for. But good o. The province for stepping up to try something. It doesn’t answer their policing concerns at all, but hopefully would be of value in disaster situations.

They won’t learn unless they work emergencies. Looking at the structure- it sure looks a lot like the emergency management structures I’ve worked with in other provinces that weren’t volunteers.

Unless they spend money shipping the volunteers around the country to other emergencies to work with their training- they will learn as they go. Which means they’ll fail there first few taskings no matter how good an idea it is. It is not my observation that Nova Scotia spends the money

Barstool predication- new agency volunteers feel good about themselves. Citizens think they have more protection than they do. Agency falls on its face its first big show- government promises overhaul. Citizens then think they have more protection than they do….

 

[Kirkhill]

They’re describing a task set much greater than a part time volunteer organization. It’ll be interesting to see what exactly gets cobbled together there, and what sort of situations they’ll be responsible for. But good o. The province for stepping up to try something. It doesn’t answer their policing concerns at all, but hopefully would be of value in disaster situations.

I like the bottom up approach that they are taking though. They will find out the limits of what is possible and then be able to adjust accordingly.

The alternative is that the professionals will constantly argue to do less with more people for more money.

Nova Scotia Guard, New Department Will Improve Emergency Readiness

news.novascotia.ca

Nova Scotia Guard – Early Registration | 211 Nova Scotia

Bill 455 - Emergency Management, An Act to Establish a Department of, and Authorize the Establishment of a Nova Scotia Guard

BILL NO. 455 (as introduced) 1st Session, 64th General Assembly Nova Scotia 2 Charles III, 2024 Government Bill An Act to Establish a Department of Emergency Management and Authorize the Establishment of a Nova Scotia Guard

nslegislature.ca

Emergency Management is elevated to Cabinet Rank and has primacy in a provincial emergency.

The Minister's responsibilities include:

• 36B The Minister of Emergency Management has, unless specifically assigned to another member of the Executive Council, the supervision, direction and control of
  (a) emergency management, including emergency preparedness, incident management and recovery;
  (b) business continuity planning and management for the Government of the Province;
  (c) the emergency "911" system;
  (d) the Nova Scotia Guard;
  (e) public safety and field communications systems and services;
  (f) the administration of Acts, orders and regulations relating to the matters referred to in clauses (a) to (e);
  (g) such other matters as may be assigned to the Minister by the Governor in Council or by statute; and
  (h) such other matters as may be assigned to the Minister by the Governor in Council on a temporary basis in order to lead or coordinate the response to an emergency or other time of need.

Clause 9 assigns responsibility for the Volunteer Fire and Ground Search and Rescue Services Act to the Minister of Emergency Management

So the Minister has responsibility for:

the 911 system and maintaining comms in an emergency
the Volunteer Fire and Ground Search and Rescue Services
the volunteers of the Nova Scotia Guard.

According to the pre-registration sheet the Guard can expect to do the following:

everything from making and delivering food to providing first-aid, caring for pets and livestock, helping to remove debris, assisting with logistics, or delivering essential services such as search and rescue.

All registered volunteers will receive an orientation and training before they are called on to help.

...

No security aspect to this but Nova Scotia, like most provinces, including Alberta, has a Sheriff's Office that reports to their Solicitor General and can be built upon.

Sheriff Services | novascotia.ca

novascotia.ca

Sheriffs

Join a team that helps ensure our communities are safe and secure places where Albertans can live, work and raise families.

www.alberta.ca

...

Short form, I like it. Heading in the direction of a National Guard or the Scandinavian Homeguards. Even without weapons they will take a lot of weight of National Defence and the CAF and permit the CAF and its Reserves to focus on weapons handling and tasks that require it.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I like the bottom up approach that they are taking though. They will find out the limits of what is possible and then be able to adjust accordingly.

The alternative is that the professionals will constantly argue to do less with more people for more money.

Nova Scotia Guard, New Department Will Improve Emergency Readiness

news.novascotia.ca

Nova Scotia Guard – Early Registration | 211 Nova Scotia

Bill 455 - Emergency Management, An Act to Establish a Department of, and Authorize the Establishment of a Nova Scotia Guard

BILL NO. 455 (as introduced) 1st Session, 64th General Assembly Nova Scotia 2 Charles III, 2024 Government Bill An Act to Establish a Department of Emergency Management and Authorize the Establishment of a Nova Scotia Guard

nslegislature.ca

Emergency Management is elevated to Cabinet Rank and has primacy in a provincial emergency.

The Minister's responsibilities include:




So the Minister has responsibility for:

the 911 system and maintaining comms in an emergency
the Volunteer Fire and Ground Search and Rescue Services
the volunteers of the Nova Scotia Guard.

According to the pre-registration sheet the Guard can expect to do the following:



...

No security aspect to this but Nova Scotia, like most provinces, including Alberta, has a Sheriff's Office that reports to their Solicitor General and can be built upon.

Sheriff Services | novascotia.ca

novascotia.ca

Sheriffs

Join a team that helps ensure our communities are safe and secure places where Albertans can live, work and raise families.

www.alberta.ca

...

Short form, I like it. Heading in the direction of a National Guard or the Scandinavian Homeguards. Even without weapons they will take a lot of weight of National Defence and the CAF and permit the CAF and its Reserves to focus on weapons handling and tasks that require it.

The NS Sheriff Service is actually something I've looked into a few times.

 

[lenaitch]

As in just about everything else, the devil will be in the details. They can create responsibilities, mandates and authorities all they want, but nothing gets executed properly without money and resources. Volunteers, even trained ones, can't c
feed the masses or the herds without the means and facilities to do that; supplies, facilities, transport, etc. Clearing away debris means more than a shovel and good intentions.

It's a lot like volunteer fire services. People are more likely to be willing to volunteer for a local community entity than a larger and probably more bureaucratic one. I think they would have more success coordinating the local services that exist, and perhaps provide funding to kick-start where they don't.

I do hope it works out, but it could end up with provincial bureaucrats and local people with the deer-in-the-headlights look and an inquiry instead of the constabulary.