- Reaction score
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recceguy said::Tin-Foil-Hat: I tell ya, it's Obama's fault. He's turning Homeland Security into a para military organization. So he can use them when he becomes dictator. Blame it all on Obama. :Tin-Foil-Hat:
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recceguy said::Tin-Foil-Hat: I tell ya, it's Obama's fault. He's turning Homeland Security into a para military organization. So he can use them when he becomes dictator. Blame it all on Obama. :Tin-Foil-Hat:
Bruce Monkhouse said:Wait,...the vehicle is illegal to import but she did anyways?? ....and enforcing that law is somehow wrong to you??
RoyalDrew said:If New Glasgow Police requires an ERT or the use of an armoured vehicle, they can call in the RCMP. No need for a small town force to have that capability but of course they wouldn't want the RCMP to come in and step on their trunks as that might hurt someones ego.
recceguy said::Tin-Foil-Hat: I tell ya, it's Obama's fault. He's turning Homeland Security into a para military organization. So he can use them when he becomes dictator. Blame it all on Obama. :Tin-Foil-Hat:
cupper said:But when you send enough Homeland Security agents to have people classify it as a raid, maybe you need to rethink the optics. They don't go into detail as to exact numbers of DHS agents or if there was a Tac team there, so I'm not judging one way or the other.
Bruce Monkhouse said:Now you guys are mind fuckin' readers.......I'm done with this thread.
This may surprise you but in the trade I work we step into each others 'territory' all the time if it means solving a crisis sooner/faster. Are you telling me you would send back equipment that might keep your soldiers safer because internet trolls might poo-poo it??
RCDcpl said:I honestly can't believe the nonsense I've read in this thread...from members of the CF no less.
Whine whine whine the police have mean looking things...this may come as a shock to you guys, but a lot of people in this country aren't very nice. Shocking I know.
Actually nobody died other than the two perpetrators and they would have died sooner had any of the dozens of officers been able to hit the broad side of a barn given the hundreds of rounds they fired... perhaps it's better we don't arm more officers given that some of them seem to know little about actual firearms?It's like I said before..better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Does anyone remember the Hollywood bank shootout in the 90's? LAPD wasn't equipped with long guns and it wasn't until people died due their to inability to respond to the threat, that rifles became the norm in cruisers.
Way to judge mission success based on body count but i digress.... comparing the work of the police to fighting in a warWhy wait until worst case scenario to THEN get prepared? The CF did that quite a bit in Afghanistan and how many lives were lost? Guys died in Iltis' so they were replaced with G Wagons....more guys died and those weren't deemed safe enough so only armoured vehicles could leave the wire.
Ever heard of the Mission Task Verb CONTAIN? Who says you need to go in right away? Maybe rather than rushing in guns blazing you can actually use your head and assess the situation. Time spent on recce is never wasted.And Royaldrew...frankly your comment about small towns not needing it and should call in different "tiers" of policing...well obviously you don't know how the real world works. When a call for help goes out they don't magically teleport to where the issue is. What if that APC is several hours away? Then what? I remember several times overseas when we needed QRF and it wasn't available right away....not a fun situation to be in.
Either way this whole argument is pointless....police beefing up isn't going anywhere and that makes me happy. I'd much rather a service be overprepared and maybe stop something before it gets out of control then learning the hard way which so many people on this board (and the CF in general) seem to insist on.
RCDcpl said:I honestly can't believe the nonsense I've read in this thread...from members of the CF no less.
Whine whine whine the police have mean looking things...this may come as a shock to you guys, but a lot of people in this country aren't very nice. Shocking I know.
It's like I said before..better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Does anyone remember the Hollywood bank shootout in the 90's? LAPD wasn't equipped with long guns and it wasn't until people died due their to inability to respond to the threat, that rifles became the norm in cruisers. Why wait until worst case scenario to THEN get prepared? The CF did that quite a bit in Afghanistan and how many lives were lost? Guys died in Iltis' so they were replaced with G Wagons....more guys died and those weren't deemed safe enough so only armoured vehicles could leave the wire.
And Royaldrew...frankly your comment about small towns not needing it and should call in different "tiers" of policing...well obviously you don't know how the real world works. When a call for help goes out they don't magically teleport to where the issue is. What if that APC is several hours away? Then what? I remember several times overseas when we needed QRF and it wasn't available right away....not a fun situation to be in.
Either way this whole argument is pointless....police beefing up isn't going anywhere and that makes me happy. I'd much rather a service be overprepared and maybe stop something before it gets out of control then learning the hard way which so many people on this board (and the CF in general) seem to insist on.
RoyalDrew said:You're right that some people (i.e. a small portion, not a lot of people as you seem to suggest) aren't very nice but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be dealt with in a professional manner befitting of a society that governs itself with the highest values for rights and freedoms.
Actually nobody died other than the two perpetrators and they would have died sooner had any of the dozens of officers been able to hit the broad side of a barn given the hundreds of rounds they fired... perhaps it's better we don't arm more officers given that some of them seem to know little about actual firearms?
Way to judge mission success based on body count but i digress.... comparing the work of the police to fighting in a war
is a stretch and honestly, seeing that you are a police officer I find that a tad alarming. I don't want police coming through my door with a "close with and destroy the enemy" mindset.
Ever heard of the Mission Task Verb CONTAIN? Who says you need to go in right away? Maybe rather than rushing in guns blazing you can actually use your head and assess the situation. Time spent on recce is never wasted.
Sheep Dog AT said:Good.
RCDcpl we aren't talking war here. We are talking using the wrong piece of equipment for the job.
WR said:This site has lost contributing members because of the some of the commentary towards law enforcement. If I started posting articles and third hand knowledge about how an infantry battalion should operate and how a section should be equipped because I spoke to my uncles neighbor who used to be in the infantry I would in very short order told to STFU and stay in my lanes. I chuckle at the irony and the public wonders why there is an us against them attitude.
I'm not saying the public doesn't have the right to question where their tax dollars are going, but you can't have Sheriff Taylor in Mayberry,that's not realistic in today's environment.
And yes we are biased because of our job, because we see more and know more than the average citizen or journalist.
RCDcpl said:Well if, god forbid, I ever have to respond to a school shooting in progress (luckily they never happen).....I'll be sure to recce the crap out of it first. This just goes to show you have zero clue what you're talking about and are out of your lane. Police officers are taught from the academy and up these days that containment is a thing of the past. We train IARD because there is a public expectation we act. You may be content to stand outside a building and listen to innocent people get killed.....I'm not.
Royal I pose this question to you, as I'm pretty sure you're an officer. Let's put yourself in the same position that chief of police was in at one point. Someone comes upto you and says hey Royal, I have this great piece of kit...you probably won't ever need it, but it could potentially save the life of an innocent person or one of your men. It's normally ten dollars but I'll give it to you for 1. Would you turn down said piece of kit?
RoyalDrew said:Actually nobody died other than the two perpetrators and they would have died sooner had any of the dozens of officers been able to hit the broad side of a barn given the hundreds of rounds they fired... perhaps it's better we don't arm more officers given that some of them seem to know little about actual firearms?
RoyalDrew said:WR, nobody is blaming the average patrolman here for anything that is happening. When I am speaking about LE I am talking about the institution itself, not the actual members. I've already stated earlier that I respect police officers for what they do and have to deal with. If I made any off the cuff remarks I apologize and would re-iterate it's not personal but used merely to emphasize a point.
Dude, if you could be any more dramatic I'd give you an emmy award!
RCDcpl said:Royal I pose this question to you, as I'm pretty sure you're an officer. Let's put yourself in the same position that chief of police was in at one point. Someone comes upto you and says hey Royal, I have this great piece of kit...you probably won't ever need it, but it could potentially save the life of an innocent person or one of your men. It's normally ten dollars but I'll give it to you for 1. Would you turn down said piece of kit?
WR said:I am lucky if I can fire more than 51 rds of ammunition a year, because of budgetary reasons, but I can imagine the outcry about militarizing the police if more money was spent on ammo and range time. There are so many hours available in a year for training. So far this year I've had to take ethics and values training, hearing conservation, visible minority awareness, mental health crisis interaction, customer service and 1 hour of shooting. Doesn't sound to SWAT like to me....
WR said:Our bosses would love to give us more training, I honestly believe that, but it comes down to budget and time. There is a significant amount of mandatory training we are obligated to complete yearly and very little is on the range or tactics. We are given directions by our political masters on what they want from us and marksmanship isn't high on the list.
We like to think we are different from the US, but I disagree, we aren't, we are just 10-15 years behind them.