CAN-USA Tariff Strife (split from various pol threads)

[ArmyRick]

On crops, a few SAD notes. Keep in mind I am beef and lamb (and occasionally pork) farmer, I also do hay. I am nt a cash croper but many of my neighbours and friends are.
-Canola. Doesn't matter who buys it, in my opinion, this is one of the filthiest and nastiest crops grown for human consumption. It shouldn't be. But its got a big industrial push behind it. My advice? Never consume this shit.
-Corn. A big chunk grown for animal feed (and the by product), most of it for industrial ingredient (HF corn syrup), some for ethanol, a tiny bit for booze (the only way people should consume it), and a very tiny bit for people feed. Honestly? Its most useful as a livestock feed, something people should keep out of their dietary consumption
-Soy. I get it, there is money involved. Why do we insist on growing a tropical legume in a non-tropical environment? Personal thoughts, peas (many varieties) are better and tolerate cold much better
-Wheat. Obviously grown for everything bread, pasta, donuts, etc and as livestock feed. I think people consume too much wheat myself but it easier to grow.
-Barley. We need her for the beer damn it. And livestock. and some people consumption.
-Oats. Excellent livestock feed, ok for people food. Easy as hell to grow.
-Rye. OK livestock food, has limited people food use. Grows in the most coldest weather you can mange (gets real tall too).
-Sunflower. Becoming more popular. I love it for livestock feed/supplement, its much easier to extract oil from sunflower than the crazy shit they do with canola. Its also very good soil remediator. I plant about 80-200 sunflowers every year. Yes you can combine sunflower.

So Rick's sustainable takeaway (and opinion) is Canadian farmers should ditch Canola, soy and corn. Canola is shit for everything and corn and soy are better grown in much warmer climates. I personally feel we should gow the cereals and peas but the market has lower demand for that stuff.

 

[brihard]

Meh. Other food or cash crops will rotate in, and corn for eating may come down in price a bit. I don’t know if ethanol production make take some of it up?

There will be a surplus of HFCS, or of corn, or of arable land. The market will absorb that and shake it out.

 

[ArmyRick]

Meh. Other food or cash crops will rotate in, and corn for eating may come down in price a bit. I don’t know if ethanol production make take some of it up?

There will be a surplus of HFCS, or of corn, or of arable land. The market will absorb that and shake it out.

The corn ethanol conundrum is tricky. I believe there is still some "green money" subsidy behind it. The physics behind it makes ZERO sense. By the time you burned off the diesel to plant, spray, spray, harvest and dry, and then further energy to render it into ethanol, you actually end up with an energy loss (Go figure), and its hard on ICE vehicles.

An old farmer years ago put it this way "We grow corn for ethanol to make people feel better and no other logical reason..." and this guy sold most of his corn to an ethanol plant.

 

[Czech_pivo]

On crops, a few SAD notes. Keep in mind I am beef and lamb (and occasionally pork) farmer, I also do hay. I am nt a cash croper but many of my neighbours and friends are.
-Canola. Doesn't matter who buys it, in my opinion, this is one of the filthiest and nastiest crops grown for human consumption. It shouldn't be. But its got a big industrial push behind it. My advice? Never consume this shit.
-Corn. A big chunk grown for animal feed (and the by product), most of it for industrial ingredient (HF corn syrup), some for ethanol, a tiny bit for booze (the only way people should consume it), and a very tiny bit for people feed. Honestly? Its most useful as a livestock feed, something people should keep out of their dietary consumption
-Soy. I get it, there is money involved. Why do we insist on growing a tropical legume in a non-tropical environment? Personal thoughts, peas (many varieties) are better and tolerate cold much better
-Wheat. Obviously grown for everything bread, pasta, donuts, etc and as livestock feed. I think people consume too much wheat myself but it easier to grow.
-Barley. We need her for the beer damn it. And livestock. and some people consumption.
-Oats. Excellent livestock feed, ok for people food. Easy as hell to grow.
-Rye. OK livestock food, has limited people food use. Grows in the most coldest weather you can mange (gets real tall too).
-Sunflower. Becoming more popular. I love it for livestock feed/supplement, its much easier to extract oil from sunflower than the crazy shit they do with canola. Its also very good soil remediator. I plant about 80-200 sunflowers every year. Yes you can combine sunflower.

So Rick's sustainable takeaway (and opinion) is Canadian farmers should ditch Canola, soy and corn. Canola is shit for everything and corn and soy are better grown in much warmer climates. I personally feel we should gow the cereals and peas but the market has lower demand for that stuff.

1) Corn for southern Ontario, alot of which is 'sweet corn', think Tecumseh, Ontario 'Cornfest'
2) What about sugar beats - think area around Chatham, Ontario
3) What about linseed?
4) What about flax?

 

[lenaitch]

On crops, a few SAD notes. Keep in mind I am beef and lamb (and occasionally pork) farmer, I also do hay. I am nt a cash croper but many of my neighbours and friends are.
-Canola. Doesn't matter who buys it, in my opinion, this is one of the filthiest and nastiest crops grown for human consumption. It shouldn't be. But its got a big industrial push behind it. My advice? Never consume this shit.
-Corn. A big chunk grown for animal feed (and the by product), most of it for industrial ingredient (HF corn syrup), some for ethanol, a tiny bit for booze (the only way people should consume it), and a very tiny bit for people feed. Honestly? Its most useful as a livestock feed, something people should keep out of their dietary consumption
-Soy. I get it, there is money involved. Why do we insist on growing a tropical legume in a non-tropical environment? Personal thoughts, peas (many varieties) are better and tolerate cold much better
-Wheat. Obviously grown for everything bread, pasta, donuts, etc and as livestock feed. I think people consume too much wheat myself but it easier to grow.
-Barley. We need her for the beer damn it. And livestock. and some people consumption.
-Oats. Excellent livestock feed, ok for people food. Easy as hell to grow.
-Rye. OK livestock food, has limited people food use. Grows in the most coldest weather you can mange (gets real tall too).
-Sunflower. Becoming more popular. I love it for livestock feed/supplement, its much easier to extract oil from sunflower than the crazy shit they do with canola. Its also very good soil remediator. I plant about 80-200 sunflowers every year. Yes you can combine sunflower.

So Rick's sustainable takeaway (and opinion) is Canadian farmers should ditch Canola, soy and corn. Canola is shit for everything and corn and soy are better grown in much warmer climates. I personally feel we should gow the cereals and peas but the market has lower demand for that stuff.

So, what oilseeds do you like?

 

[ArmyRick]

So, what oilseeds do you like?

ZERO for human consumption. I use lard, beef tallow, butter, butter, butter and if you can get your mitts on it, real olive oil (not mixed, which never says it on the label).

 

[ArmyRick]

1) Corn for southern Ontario, alot of which is 'sweet corn', think Tecumseh, Ontario 'Cornfest'
2) What about sugar beats - think area around Chatham, Ontario
3) What about linseed?
4) What about flax?

I live in Southern Ontario, although Oxford county has a slightly better environment than say Grey county. There is still a chunk of corn that gets grown every year (even in Ontario) that gets lost, never gets harvested. Iowa and Nebraska are 2 prime examples of where they can grow corn MUCH better (their growing season is 6-8 weeks longer, which is much more ideal).

Now cereals, you can plant a winter wheat in October, harvest it next late May/June and then plant say an oat crop and harvest it by end of August/early September

Sugar beets, yes a crop, but its a root crop and not as popular. Linseed and flax are same thing. Limited market demand for it, so not much grown.

 

[RangerRay]

The "400%" tariff line he keeps repeating is right up there with they subsidize us with $XXBillion in trade or all their fentanyl comes from us.

True that there are high tariffs (actually it is 270% not 400 but I could be wrong) on some US dairy product imports but that is only after a tariff-free quantity. Only approximately 1% of US imports are subject to high tariffs.

Overall, they export about about twice as much to as we do to them. Apparently Wisconsin has more dairy cows that all of Canada.

I would also be concerned about the antibiotic and hormone level in US dairy.

The US likes to perpetuate the myth that their agriculture sector is pure free market and everybody else is socialist.

But if you remove the US bogeyman, our supply management system is still a major impediment to getting trade deals with the rest of the world, hence hindering our efforts to diversify our trade portfolio. Not to mention screwing over Canadian consumers for the benefit of a few.

 

[Maxman1]

-Rye. OK livestock food, has limited people food use. Grows in the most coldest weather you can mange (gets real tall too).

Also necessary for whisky, which makes it the most important one.

 

[Good2Golf]

-Canola. Doesn't matter who buys it, in my opinion, this is one of the filthiest and nastiest crops grown for human consumption. It shouldn't be. But its got a big industrial push behind it. My advice? Never consume this shit.

Not as filthy as when we called it rapeseed…

 

[The Bread Guy]

... There will be a surplus of HFCS, or of corn, or of arable land. The market will absorb that and shake it out.

I'm not of a conspiratorial mindset normally, but I suspect there will be a lot of resistance from Big High Fructose Corn Syrup to changes in how POTUS47's American sweetens things.

Speaking only as a hearty eater, not a food scientist, I suspect a lot of food processes are set up to be WAY easier to use HFCS than other sweeteners, meaning Big HFCS and Big HFCS Users (betcha a whooooooooooooooole lotta pop produced in the U.S. uses HFCS) may twist arms to avoid more expensive sweeteners* AND having to retool.

Robert Kennedy's pronouncements on the un-goodness of HFCS has already drawn fire from the usual quarters earlier this year ...

RFK Jr. wants to wean America off corn syrup, but production is already on the decline - Investigate Midwest

Corn, the nation’s largest crop, is produced for a variety of uses, including food for humans and animals, alcohol for fuel and exports to foreign countries. Almost all of those uses have increased over the last several years. However, corn produced for high-fructose corn syrup has decreased by...

investigatemidwest.org

RFK Jr’s vow to ban syrup sows concern among corn farmers in Trump heartland

Loss of high fructose corn syrup would be a major blow for producers if Trump’s health pick is true to his word

www.theguardian.com

We'll see who wins ...

* - Guess why cane sugar's more expensive? Yeah, tariffs - and I'm SURE he'd be happy to allow higher import quotas to get more cane sugar in, right?

 

[PrairieFella]

Not as filthy as when we called it rapeseed…

Functionally a different plant now bred by the University of Manitoba. Canola stands for CANada Oil Low Acid. The acid being eruric which made rapeseed of limited use cooking wise. It is perfectly safe to eat in moderation. If even the Europeans accept it when it meets its ureric acid limits (which commerically available stuff does), its fine.

Fats and oils

How to incorporate fats and oils as a part of a heart-healthy diet, and the role of different fats such as trans fats, monounsaturated fats, polyunsaturated fats, omega fats, and saturated fats.

www.heartandstroke.ca

Inb4 the appeal to knowledge, 8th generation prairie grain farmer. Haven't been hurt by canola yet haha. Just dont eat it like olive oil, very neutral taste.

 

[ArmyRick]

perfectly safe to eat in moderation

Its my personal opinion (that many MDs share) zero is the safe amount of canola to consume.

I wouldn't be quick to quote things from heartandstroke. Its a deep rabbit hole but there are many cardiologist fed up with recommendations by H and S.

Its a topic better to split off. Myself, being a 90-95% carnivore and I frequently fast 24-48 hours, I have very "unconventional" views and not the least bit interested in sharing them here.

 

[Good2Golf]

Functionally a different plant now bred by the University of Manitoba. Canola stands for CANada Oil Low Acid. The acid being eruric which made rapeseed of limited use cooking wise. It is perfectly safe to eat in moderation. If even the Europeans accept it when it meets its ureric acid limits (which commerically available stuff does), its fine.

Fats and oils

How to incorporate fats and oils as a part of a heart-healthy diet, and the role of different fats such as trans fats, monounsaturated fats, polyunsaturated fats, omega fats, and saturated fats.

www.heartandstroke.ca

Inb4 the appeal to knowledge, 8th generation prairie grain farmer. Haven't been hurt by canola yet haha. Just dont eat it like olive oil, very neutral taste.

So Canamonsanto GMO-approved?

 

[PrairieFella]

So Canamonsanto GMO-approved?

Right up there with GMOs broccoli and cabbage

 

[Genetk44]

Would be nice to get more European cheeses here at a more decent price.

We have lots of other agricultural sectors that are not supply managed and do well. Beef, for example was never supply managed.

Also, it’s weird that we allow less than 9000 extremely wealthy farms to hold the rest of our economy hostage. If we have one big stumbling block to increasing trade with the rest of the world, it’s this.

This is one thing I agreed with Mad Max about.

We get far more high quality European cheeses, at least in Quebec, than they do down in the US.

 

[Genetk44]

Would they disappear or be absorbed into larger corporate dairy farms?

They would mostly disappear. Our much smaller dairy sector would be flooded out of business. The state of Wisconsin alone has more dairy cattle than all of Canada. And California has 3-4 times the number of dairy cattle than Wisconsin. Plus the American government subsidizes the US dairy industry to the tune of billions per year.

 

[Genetk44]

Trump's latest whim of having Coke switch over to cane sugar in place of HF corn syrup will be another nail in the coffin of the American grain farmer. First the gutting of USAID, then the Potash tariff, then the rounding up of their Indentured Servants and now the cutting of HF corn syrup from Coke (if it happens).

An awful lot of American farmers are going to be going under because of this. Talk about corporate farming takeovers, this is it.

Going back to using sugar in Coke versus hf cornsyrup is a good thing.

 

[Genetk44]

Not sure how much the cutting head on a combine costs, but farmers would need to buy a cutter head for other crops if they only had a corn head…

I have a buddy who farms 5,000 acres in Indiana….corn and soyabeans. Corn goes to the poultry feed businesses and soya goes wherever. He has all his own equipment and does his own harvesting…..plenty of farmers in the US just like him.

 

[Genetk44]

Apparently Canada has resolved its dairy issues with New Zealand.

MSN