CAN-USA Tariff Strife (split from various pol threads)

[RangerRay]

I just want butter that spreads at room temperature. They actually have that in Europe.

 

[AmmoTech90]

I just want butter that spreads at room temperature. They actually have that in Europe.

Uhhh, Costco salted does. Keep it on the counter for weeks. What's your thermostat set at?

 

[Rifleman62]

I just want butter that spreads at room temperature. They actually have that in Europe.

Plus butter packaged in quarters not costing an extra $2.50 a lb.

 

[Jarnhamar]

This should be a non starter, allowing pus filled milk into our system will be horrible for our collective health. It acts as an inflammatory agent in our bodies and we have enough inflammation related health issues as it is.

It's not literal pus (or contamination) and doesn't act as an inflammatory agent in our body. The numbers you're referring to are just primarily white blood cells. It's used as an animal-health and milk quality indicator.

 

[PuckChaser]

It's not literal pus (or contamination) and doesn't act as an inflammatory agent in our body. The numbers you're referring to are just primarily white blood cells. It's used as an animal-health and milk quality indicator.

Don't let facts get in the way of an emotional outburst. Any milk coming here should meet our standards (and we should harmonize to EU standards which may be a tiny bit looser) but the disinformation is going hard to the paint to protect Quebecs supply mafia.

 

[Altair]

It's not literal pus (or contamination) and doesn't act as an inflammatory agent in our body. The numbers you're referring to are just primarily white blood cells. It's used as an animal-health and milk quality indicator.

Somatic cells absolutely act as an inflammatory agent in our bodies. Lower quality milk is not good for us, and high somatic cell counts drastically lower milk quality.

But sure, let's just assume that regulatory bodies would put restriction on somatic cell counts in milk because it's totally healthy otherwise.

Or because it's to monitor the health of the animal.

Maybe it has something to do with the health of the person consuming it and somatic cells per mL being high isn't healthy?

 

[Jarnhamar]

Somatic cells absolutely act as an inflammatory agent in our bodies.

One of us must be using Bing and the other Duck Duck Go.

What I'm reading is Somatic cells themselves do not act as inflammatory agents in humans. In milk, somatic cells are primarily white blood cells (leukocytes) and some epithelial cells shed from the cow’s udder. Elevated somatic cell counts (SCC) in milk indicate inflammation or infection in the cow (most commonly mastitis), not inflammation in the person consuming the milk.

When milk is pasteurized, these cells are destroyed and rendered biologically inactive. They do not trigger inflammation in the human body.

Even in raw milk, there is no credible evidence that somatic cells themselves cause systemic inflammation in people.

Somatic cells are a marker of inflammation in the animal, not an inflammatory substance for humans.

Lower quality milk is not good for us, and high somatic cell counts drastically lower milk quality.

Higher SCC milk is lower quality, true.

Elevated SCC is associated with:
-Reduced shelf life
-Altered taste
-Slightly lower protein quality; and
-Increased enzymatic activity that can degrade milk components.

These effects impact product quality and processing performance, not consumer safety.

Additional sourcing: I'm currently drinking a glass of milk and about to wash it down with Pike Creek.

 

[Altair]

One of us must be using Bing and the other Duck Duck Go.

What I'm reading is Somatic cells themselves do not act as inflammatory agents in humans. In milk, somatic cells are primarily white blood cells (leukocytes) and some epithelial cells shed from the cow’s udder. Elevated somatic cell counts (SCC) in milk indicate inflammation or infection in the cow (most commonly mastitis), not inflammation in the person consuming the milk.

When milk is pasteurized, these cells are destroyed and rendered biologically inactive. They do not trigger inflammation in the human body.

Even in raw milk, there is no credible evidence that somatic cells themselves cause systemic inflammation in people.

Somatic cells are a marker of inflammation in the animal, not an inflammatory substance for humans.




Higher SCC milk is lower quality, true.

Elevated SCC is associated with:
-Reduced shelf life
-Altered taste
-Slightly lower protein quality; and
-Increased enzymatic activity that can degrade milk components.

These effects impact product quality and processing performance, not consumer safety.

Additional sourcing: I'm currently drinking a glass of milk and about to wash it down with Pike Creek.

Health concerns about possible long-term effects of legally marketed milk and dairy from animals with intramammary infections - PMC

Milk and dairy from animals with subclinical mastitis infections are marketable. Mastitis is detected with the somatic cell count (SCC). The EU regulation, among the stricter ones, limits an average of 400,000 somatic cells/ml in milk. Other ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The leukocytes that come with milk from infected udders are involved in the production of milk cytokines (75). Cytokines are also present in milk from healthy udders, but composition and concentrations change with both clinical and subclinical mastitis (16) depending on time after exposure, pathogen species, and severity of the disease (76). Proinflammatory cytokines as indicators of early inflammation such as TNF-α appear to reach a peak in 1–12 h after exposure followed by a gradual drop (77), whereas other cytokines can reach their maximum levels at up to 7 days or even later (76) depending again also on the pathogen species. In naturally acquired mastitis, milk concentrations of IFN-γ reached up to 20 ng/ml, whereas maximum reported levels of IL-6, TNF-α, IL-1β, IL-8, and TGF-α were about 90 ng/ml, 25 ng/ml, 8 ng/ml, 1 ng/ml, and 0.5 ng/ml, respectively, values that were significantly higher than in milk from healthy udders (76). In comparison, the control milk samples had maximum levels of about only 0–0.15 ng/ml of IFN-γ, TNF-α, IL-1β, IL-8, and TGF-α (76).

Milk cytokines are crucial for the development of the newborn's organism and its immune system (78). Cytokines have been also considered for therapeutic use, and in that context, it has been demonstrated that orally administered interferons and cytokines can exert both local and systemic effects (79). TGF-β, for example, when synthesized as an inactive precursor, can be activated during intestinal transit by multiple mechanisms, e.g., by a low pH of 1.5 (65). It is therefore probable that milk cytokines are bioactive after ingestion and digestion. Cytokines have very complex biological functions and can interact with each other. Some can induce the production of others, act synergistically to enhance their effects, inhibit the expression of others, or stimulate the expression of receptor antagonists or receptors of others (76). For example, IL-1 induces the production of IL-1 itself, TNF-α, IL-6, IL-8, and IL-12. In the cases of TNF-α and IL-6, IL-1 can act synergistically to enhance their effects (76). This suggests that cytokines in food could make a difference even if present in apparently small amounts. Almost 30 different cytokines with specific features (65) have been already identified in milk raising the question about their biological immunomodulatory significance as well as their risk for human consumption, which has still to be determined.

Enjoy your milk.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Health concerns about possible long-term effects of legally marketed milk and dairy from animals with intramammary infections - PMC

Milk and dairy from animals with subclinical mastitis infections are marketable. Mastitis is detected with the somatic cell count (SCC). The EU regulation, among the stricter ones, limits an average of 400,000 somatic cells/ml in milk. Other ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

That article discusses composition differences in milk from animals with subclinical mastitis. It doesn't address pasteurization status of milk sold in the U.S. retail market.

It also mentions biologically active compounds (including somatic cell-derived substances like cytokines, reactive oxygen species, etc.) in milk from infected udders and raises questions about potential effects:
It notes that cows with mastitis have higher levels of bioactive compounds (e.g., pro-inflammatory cytokines, oxidation products) in their milk. These are associated with the animal’s immune response and inflammation, not that the somatic cells themselves are inflammatory agents in humans.


The authors state that it cannot be excluded that such compounds might interfere with human homeostasis or contribute to redox/cytokine dysregulation, but they do not present definitive evidence of harmful inflammatory effects in humans from consuming such milk.

Ultimately the article explores scientific uncertainty and suggests more research is needed. It doesn't definitively claim that somatic cells cause inflammation in humans or that pasteurized milk causes inflammation.

Enjoy your milk.

Done and done!

 

[Brad Sallows]

If anyone is a little queasy, there is an easy fix.

Go take a tour of a slaughterhouse or watch sausages being made.

 

[Halifax Tar]

If anyone is a little queasy, there is an easy fix.

Go take a tour of a slaughterhouse or watch sausages being made.

This is actually an issue where most of the population is disconnected from their food.

The Disconnect Between the Food Source and the Consumer – food 4 thought

food4thought.opened.ca

 

[Rifleman62]

Speaking of butter and the Dairy Cartel (P.S. there is a video on Cdn whiskey also):

7 WORST Canadian Butter Brands YOU MUST AVOID That stick of butter in your fridge? It’s not as pure as you think. Some brands are loaded with additives, fake flavors, or cheap substitutes that could be harming your health — and the companies making it know exactly what they’re doing.In the next 18 minutes, I’ll reveal exactly which 7 Canadian butter brands to avoid, what’s really in them, and what you should be buying instead. After this, you’ll never spread butter the same way again.

 

[RangerRay]

Uhhh, Costco salted does. Keep it on the counter for weeks. What's your thermostat set at?

20C. Now matter what cartel brand we use, it shreds my wife’s soft sourdough bread like it’s still frozen.

The Europeans know a thing or two about good dairy. It would be a shame for the dairy cartel to have to compete against that and develop a superior product like the Kiwis had to do…

 

[IKnowNothing]

I think it’s clear that Miran’s strategy was integrated notably into extant US fiscal policy, but I don’t think that it was implemented as purely as he intended/planned (60% tariffs in China and 10% on everyone else) became quickly forgotten ranges/goals, and the purity of resolving imbalances, such as they were seen to be, rapidly became diluted by other factors, notably ‘hegemonic security.’

I think many of the risks that the Sprott Business School team assessed are in fact happening…I think that Moran undervalued the time it would take US manufacturing to take up the mission to replace other manufacturing and I do think the US dollar is at risk of if not falling as the global reserve, at least to a notable weakening as such.

Replying here as it diverges from Venezuela.

Looking back over the last 13 months- the annex Canada rhetoric, the not-viable/ we don't need Canada, the explosive and vitriolic responses when we push back...

I think they correctly identified our unique ability to stand in the way of their plans, but underestimated
A- our willingness to do so
B- DJT's instability leading to sub-optimal reactions to A.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Replying here as it diverges from Venezuela.

Looking back over the last 13 months- the annex Canada rhetoric, the not-viable/ we don't need Canada, the explosive and vitriolic responses when we push back...

I think they correctly identified our unique ability to stand in the way of their plans, but underestimated
A- our willingness to do so
B- DJT's instability leading to sub-optimal reactions to A.

My concern is if Trump says to NATO, its either Greenland or Canada - which hill are you willing to sacrifice the Alliance on?

 

[brihard]

My concern is if Trump says to NATO, its either Greenland or Canada - which hill are you willing to sacrifice the Alliance on?

Trick question. What you describe is no longer an alliance.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Trick question. What you describe is no longer an alliance.

True
Adding to that - Trump says to the rump of NATO, we'll throw in the bonuses of continued large US military presence throughout Europe, we'll provide a full brigade to Latvia to replace the CDN's there and we'll give the Ukrainians a timeline to NATO and a 50yr defense agreement.

Tell me there would not be significant numbers with NATO who would agree to this -

 

[brihard]

True
Adding to that - Trump says to the rump of NATO, we'll throw in the bonuses of continued large US military presence throughout Europe, we'll provide a full brigade to Latvia to replace the CDN's there and we'll give the Ukrainians a timeline to NATO and a 50yr defense agreement.

Tell me there would not be significant numbers with NATO who would agree to this -

Who at this point would think a defence commitment from Trump is worth anything? Particular in that context and under those terms?

 

[Czech_pivo]

Who at this point would think a defence commitment from Trump is worth anything? Particular in that context and under those terms?

Yes, true again - but look at the world we currently live in - we have the US President openly talking about absorbing the sovereign territory of a close ally and previously openly bantering about the making of its closest ally/neighbour part of its country.

We live in strange times and what normally makes sense 15 months ago is no longer the case.

Again, if Trump says to NATO - pick one, Greenland or Canada, I'm not sure I like our odds.

 

[JLB50]

Let’s assume the worst should happen and the Americans do either a major invasion or a quick takeover of Canada’s infrastructure. I would hope that the majority of Canadians would not simply stand by without doing anything. During the Nazi’s occupation of Europe people of all ages and economic classes formed a very formidable resistance. It all depends on which side has the greatest need to either preserve what they have had or to deprive someone else of what they did have.