CAN-USA Tariff Strife (split from various pol threads)

[Altair]

If the German and Japanese populations can change to the point of becoming allies of ours, I dont think your dire prediction for the USA is the sole path for the future.

As much as you accuse me of biases in the following quote, I think you need to recognize your own.

I think that our view on the Germans and Japanese would be drastically different if the factions that drove the world into conflict kept coming back every 4 years.

I'm sorry I don't puppet your blessed gospel from on high on all that is Canada US relations.

Okay, I'm open minded.

I'll ask you plainly.

Does MAGA outlive the Trump presidency?

I do love Americans. I have worked with a great many in theatres and domestically. I have American friends. I happily travel to the US for any number of events and activities. And I find them gracious, friendly, helpful; and generally ignorant of what's going on outside their own borders.

I've met many kind Iranians. I've met a many Russians pre 2022 that I would happily share a beer with.

Doesnt mean I love their countries or their governments.

And I know, people will say, how can I compare Iranians or Russians with Americans? Well, humans are humans and most humans are decent hardworking people.

Ive been treated better by Americans for being in the CAF than I ever have from fellow Canadians.

Cool.

Why is Canadian patriotism a binary choice ? Why is it love Canada and hate America ? Why cant I love both ?

I would be far more willing to buy this from you if I ever heard you say anything about loving anything to do with Canada.

What I have heard is a litany of gripes about Canada, while espousing how superior you believe America is.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I think that our view on the Germans and Japanese would be drastically different if the factions that drove the world into conflict kept coming back every 4 years.

I mean Germans and Japanese did horrible things to millions of people but we moved on. I think we can move on from the 51st state suggestion.

Okay, I'm open minded.

I'll ask you plainly.

Does MAGA outlive the Trump presidency?

No idea. How do you expect me answer that ? From what I gather MAGA has a faction that's pretty upset with Trump right now.

I think Trump and the Republicans are about to get smashed in the mid terms, and I expect the Republicans will lose the next election.

What cultural groupings continue, I have no idea.

I've met many kind Iranians. I've met a many Russians pre 2022 that I would happily share a beer with.

Doesnt mean I love their countries or their governments.

And I know, people will say, how can I compare Iranians or Russians with Americans? Well, humans are humans and most humans are decent hardworking people.

Sure.

I would be far more willing to buy this from you if I ever heard you say anything about loving anything to do with Canada.

What I have heard is a litany of gripes about Canada, while espousing how superior you believe America is.

I know you like to hide your service and that's your prerogative. But I don't hide mine. What I have done for this country is out there for all to see. I've never cleared a trench or blown up a bunker. But I have gone to bed at night with the blood of a 23 dead year old NWO leaking out the eyelets of my sea boots, . My love for Canada is in my actions and my service.

Don't confuse my gripes and complaints as dislike. Canada has so much potential and I want us to get there. I love my daughter, but I also provide advice and correction when require. Her room is mess right now, so I tell her that and expect it clean up when I get home today. People may not realize it but that's love. If i didn't love I would allow her live in squaller.

 

[PuckChaser]

And we're locking this up for a bit so everyone can just cool down and I don't have to apply a warning. This conversation is getting so far away from the discussion at hand and more targeting someone personally which is completely offside.

- Milnet.ca Staff

 

[Halifax Tar]

It will be interesting to see the full details of what makes up this deal.

Vance has a word on it:

Carney tried to ‘out-tough’ Trump in trade negotiations, Vance says

 

[Halifax Tar]

The HUB has a POV.

 

[Czech_pivo]

It will be interesting to see the full details of what makes up this deal.

Vance has a word on it:

Carney tried to ‘out-tough’ Trump in trade negotiations, Vance says

Vance has the most punch able face of a politician out there.

Any reason why Vance’s comment about PP aren’t included here?

These comments are coming from the same guy that was so anti Trump 6yrs ago and now has so much brown on his face and lips that he looks like a 4yr old that broke into a milk chocolate factory one afternoon.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

It will be interesting to see the full details of what makes up this deal.

Vance has a word on it:

Carney tried to ‘out-tough’ Trump in trade negotiations, Vance says

Who fucking cares what that fuckwit "thinks"? He is simply parroting talking points, and sucking up to Trump. He is capable of complex thought, but chooses to act as a ventriloquist dummy....

 

[PPCLI Guy]

The HUB has a POV.

Summary: This is a discussion on The Hub (Roger and Sean Speer) about the emerging Canada-US trade deal, reportedly set to be announced imminently as of Friday, August 21, 2026.


Key takeaways:

• Terms of the deal: Leaks suggest a new baseline ~15% tariff on key sectors (autos, steel), roughly matching what the EU and Japan already accepted — down from 25% on autos, with an exemption on US parts. Softwood lumber tariffs may drop but not disappear; dairy quota concessions and "harmonization" with US digital/tech regulations are also expected.
• This is not a return to free trade. Both hosts argue NAFTA-style tariff-free trade is definitively over; we're entering an era of "managed trade" where the US demands market access without reciprocal concessions, banking on the sheer size of the US market as leverage.
• Auto sector concerns: A drop from 25% to 15% (rather than to zero) is seen as insufficient to stop capital and manufacturing — especially Japanese automakers in Ontario — from continuing to shift toward the US, especially given US tax/depreciation advantages under the "one big beautiful bill."
• Political fallout: Provincial premiers (notably Quebec's and Manitoba's) are pushing back, partly because they weren't briefed on deal details. There's added friction from JD Vance's leaked remarks mocking PM Carney for claiming a "win" while actually making concessions.
• Why now? Speer offers two theories: (1) Canada may be racing to avoid being locked out by Mexico's more advanced bilateral negotiations with the US, and (2) Trump's 50% tariff threat may have forced Canada's hand after a strategy of "ragging the puck" (stalling) failed.
• Broader framing: Both hosts frame this as the end of American-led globalization/free-trade idealism, driven partly by US fiscal pressure (federal debt just passed $40 trillion) and a shift to zero-sum trade psychology likely to persist across future administrations. They describe the deal as a "short sharp shock" Canada will need to absorb and move past.

My thoughts:

1. The fact that free trade deals such as NAFTA are in the past is a point that Speer has been making for two years now - turns out he is right
2. 15% is in the same range as EU and Japan. We need to understand that, from the perspective of Trump if not Americans, we just are not that special anymore
3. The plan to wait Trump out was a good one. He accelerated the timelines because reasons.....midterms? jealousy of Carney? Animus? Capriciousness? Hard to have a rational discussion and negotiation with a seemingly non-rational actor
4. This may be the art of the practicable and politically palatable vice the possible. Pundits (including in here) have a tendency to focus on the latter
5. Given all of that this may be the most practicable and palatable deal possible given the timelines, the bad-faith dealing from the US, and the Canadian incoherence that comes with our federal system and allocation of powers.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Any reason why Vance’s comment about PP aren’t included here?

What role is Poilievre playing in negotiation with the US?

 

[Good2Golf]

What role is Poilievre playing in negotiation with the US?

Providing seasoned advice to Carney not to accept anything less than complete removal of US tariffs to zero per cent.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Any reason why Vance’s comment about PP aren’t included here?

No idea I'm not the author.

 

[Halifax Tar]

What role is Poilievre playing in negotiation with the US?

Absolutely nil. But when things go wrong, just switch the narrative to remind people PP is bad to distract them.

But apparently Jamil Jivani was a help...

 

[Jarnhamar]

Providing seasoned advice to Carney not to accept anything less than complete removal of US tariffs to zero per cent.

Isn't that the whole elbows up thing?

 

[Good2Golf]

Isn't that the whole elbows up thing?

Zero tariffs = Über Elbowalles!

 

[Jarnhamar]

Zero tariffs = Über Elbowalles!

It's funny because Poilievre got absolutely blasted and called a traitor for suggesting we should compromise and work with the Americans. Carney was elbows up, the man to pick to stand up against Trump.

Meanwhile we get Poilievre talking out of his ass about zero tariffs and Carney getting Canadians ready for a bunch of concessions.

 

[The Bread Guy]

What role is Poilievre playing in negotiation with the US?

Which is what the Veep is quoted as sorta saying, anyway.

It's funny because Poilievre got absolutely blasted and called a traitor for suggesting we should compromise and work with the Americans. Carney was elbows up, the man to pick to stand up against Trump.

Meanwhile we get Poilievre talking out of his ass about zero tariffs and Carney getting Canadians ready for a bunch of concessions.

Yeah, politics can be funny that way, for sure.

 

[Altair]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/livestory/midnight-deadline-trump-tariffs-trade-deal-leblanc-greer-9.7310605

Canada declines to finalize trade deal, new tariffs set to take effect: U.S. trade rep

U.S. President Donald Trump's threatened 50 per cent tariffs on $28 billion worth of goods are set to take effect after Canadian and American negotiators were unable to finalize a trade deal ahead of the midnight deadline.

YES.

Thank you, lets hit the counter tariffs and forget about dealing with trump.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Unlocked.
On topic, and with some decorum please.
Bruce

 

[HavokFour]

No deal, a fight it is.

PM Carney says Canada intends to match U.S. tariffs ‘dollar for dollar,’ after suspending trade negotiations. Live updates here.

A new round of punishing U.S. tariffs on Canada went into effect early Saturday morning, as Prime Minister Mark Carney suspended trade negotiations minutes before the deadline.

www.ctvnews.ca

[CBC]Trump administration says Canada has declined a deal

U.S. Trade Representative Jamieson Greer has issued a statement saying there is no trade deal with Canada.

"Tonight, Canada declined to finalize the trade deal under the terms agreed earlier this week, despite the U.S. offer to Canada to receive the best treatment of any major exporter to our market. New demands and walk backs of other commitments by Canada have upended the careful balance reached in the past days," Greer said in a statement just after 11:30 p.m. ET.

"In addition, Canada is continuing to maintain its prolonged retaliation against the United States, including, among other things, flat out prohibitions on certain American goods and services."

Tariffs will go into effect "as planned" at 12:01 a.m. ET, a senior administration official said.

 

[Altair]

No deal, a fight it is.

PM Carney says Canada intends to match U.S. tariffs ‘dollar for dollar,’ after suspending trade negotiations. Live updates here.

A new round of punishing U.S. tariffs on Canada went into effect early Saturday morning, as Prime Minister Mark Carney suspended trade negotiations minutes before the deadline.

www.ctvnews.ca

[CBC]Trump administration says Canada has declined a deal

Let's do this.