Canada’s little-known spy agency comes out into the open

[GAP]

But not necessarily how intelligence works....

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

It doesn't... listening to Canadians foreign or domestically without a wiretap warrant is extremely illegal. They have 500 page documents outlining what you can and can't do.

Not quite: Its "private communications" only that are protected. And Section 183 of the Criminal code defines it (for radio signals) as follows: "... and includes any radio-based telephone communication that is treated electronically or otherwise for the purpose of preventing intelligible reception by any person other than the person intended by the originator to receive it."

And wiretapping is for a single - specific - phone number to get all of its conversations, not for listening at random to all the radio signals out there in the aether.

Your cell-phones are all radio-based but the frequency lock on them - to prevent overlapping conversations - is not an "electronic treatment to prevent intelligible reception". Same applies BTW to short-wave and satellite transmission for long distance calls. In all these cases, unless you encrypt your signal, the communication is fair game.

Do we all remember our (supposed) first response to a work related call: "This is not a secure line!"

 

[Edward Campbell]

I suspect that CSE, like CSIS, is pretty scrupulous about obeying at least the letter of the law. But there are ways to stretch the spirit of the law just a bit by using, inter alia, allied networks like Echelon (and yes, I think the Wikipedia is an OK source for this).

 

[George Wallace]

It doesn't... listening to Canadians foreign or domestically without a wiretap warrant is extremely illegal. They have 500 page documents outlining what you can and can't do.

Actually, listening is NOT the part that is illegal.  It is what you do with what you listened to that could become illegal.  It is illegal to produce any "intelligence product" (ie. files, reports, etc.) on any material gathered through these means on Canadians domestically. 

 

[Edward Campbell]

I am NOT a lawyer but I did pick up a couple of bits of legalistic ufi over the years: see OFFENCES AND PUNISHMENTS, specifically Section 9 (Prohibitions) in the Radiocommunications Act. Generally, listening, for no purpose other than private interest, to any unencrypted signal is OK - sharing what one hears, for whatever purpose, no matter how noble, is less than OK.

 

[The Bread Guy]

I am NOT a lawyer but I did pick up a couple of bits of legalistic ufi over the years: see OFFENCES AND PUNISHMENTS, specifically Section 9 (Prohibitions) in the Radiocommunications Act. Generally, listening, for no purpose other than private interest, to any unencrypted signal is OK - sharing what one hears, for whatever purpose, no matter how noble, is less than OK.

Good point - even reporters who hear something on a police scanner (technically) cannot just write the story from that content and broadcast the story.

 

[57Chevy]

Good point - even reporters who hear something on a police scanner (technically) cannot just write the story from that content and broadcast the story.

Is is not true that reporters don't have to disclose anything
as to where and by whom or by what means they obtain their information.

Good stories are usually filled with information from a number of sources.
Some of which may be considered a trade secret  ;D

 

[George Wallace]

Is is not true that reporters don't have to disclose anything
as to where and by whom or by what means they obtain their information.

Good stories are usually filled with information from a number of sources.
Some of which may be considered a trade secret  ;D

Why sure, of course, etc.  They can also face jail time if they are subpoenaed by the Court to provide that information and they refuse.  >

 

[easy2use22]

There's always people trying to take credit for the work of others, specifically in the SigInt community. Since the sources are always classified, its hard to call them out on it.

I have extreme admiration for CF IntelBranch. You'd be surprised, they're much more secretive than SIGNT, no kidding and swear to God.

 

[Journeyman]

.....no kidding and swear to God.

Well that makes it all the more official. I think the Global Warming thread could benefit from this sort of credible insight.  ;D

 

[aesop081]

I have extreme admiration for CF IntelBranch. You'd be surprised, they're much more secretive than SIGNT, no kidding and swear to God.

If you want to talk SIGINT, it is not the responsability of the CF Int branch.

 

[dapaterson]

If you want to talk SIGINT, it is not the responsability of the CF Int branch.

Which explains why it's useful, timely and trusted.

 

[Franko]

I have extreme admiration for CF IntelBranch. You'd be surprised, they're much more secretive than SIGNT, no kidding and swear to God.

Well now that cements it. From now on if anyone uses that to end their argument then it has to be true. Maybe we should put that in the Guidelines as well.

Are you for real?

 

[Sig_Des]

Actually, listening is NOT the part that is illegal.  It is what you do with what you listened to that could become illegal.  It is illegal to produce any "intelligence product" (ie. files, reports, etc.) on any material gathered through these means on Canadians domestically.

And this of course is nothing new. If memory serves correctly, Military EW assets were present during the Oka crisis, and intercepted quite a bit, but could not legally pass a lot of the information on to other organisations for criminal prosecution.

 

[Mike5]

Re: the original topic of the thread -- growth at CSE and jobs:
- In his Letter to the Editor of the Ottawa Citizen, December 21, 2010, John Adams states that "the consortium, led by Plenary and PCL, will create 4,000 to 5,000 jobs in the Ottawa area... "  I gather this refers to temporary jobs created during the construction phase?
- Would anyone have any insight as to whether there would be a role for PRes personnel to work directly with CSE?

Thanks in advance for any informed comment,

 

[PanaEng]

Re: the original topic of the thread -- growth at CSE and jobs:
- In his Letter to the Editor of the Ottawa Citizen, December 21, 2010, John Adams states that "the consortium, led by Plenary and PCL, will create 4,000 to 5,000 jobs in the Ottawa area... "  I gather this refers to temporary jobs created during the construction phase?
- Would anyone have any insight as to whether there would be a role for PRes personnel to work directly with CSE?

Thanks in advance for any informed comment,

yes, those would be construction jobs only - maybe some maintenance.

PRes working for CSE: Highly unlikely.
Although, there may be CF positions that work closely with CSE and some of those may be Class B.
You may, however, be an employee of CSE and be in the PRes.
(if you can be posted to CFS Leitrim, you may work with CSE some times - but I know very little about it, total supposition there)
(someone with more direct knowledge may or may not add to this  ;D )

And Happy New Year! everyone.

cheers,
Frank

 

[The Bread Guy]

Is is not true that reporters don't have to disclose anything as to where and by whom or by what means they obtain their information.

Depends on the lawyer you talk to.  I'm guessing it would be difficult to prove the ONLY source of info for a particular story was a scanner transmission.

Good stories are usually filled with information from a number of sources.  Some of which may be considered a trade secret  ;D

Not much trade secret there - most such stories would initially be sourced via 1)  a call to the agency dispatching the person making the transmission, 2)  a call to a neighbour of the address, asking "Hey, I'm from ABCD News - are there cop cars near your place?  What's up?", or 3)  a visit by a reporter to the scene.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Bumped with the latest....

Prime Minister Stephen Harper announced today the following changes in the senior ranks of the Public Service:

( .... )

John L. Adams, currently Chief of the Communications Security Establishment Canada, becomes Senior Advisor to the Privy Council Office and is named as Skelton-Clark Fellow to the Queen’s University School of Policy Studies, effective January 30, 2012.

John Forster, currently Associate Deputy Minister of Infrastructure, becomes Chief of the Communications Security Establishment Canada, effective January 30, 2012 ....

Biographies here.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Bump with the latest fracas ....

Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff demanded on Monday that Canada explain a media report that said it spied on the Brazilian mines and energy ministry, and she called on the United States and its allies to stop spying over the Internet.

A Brazilian television report on Sunday said Canada's electronic eavesdropping agency targeted the ministry that manages the South American nation's vast mineral and oil resources. The report was based on documents leaked by former U.S. National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden.

Brazil "will demand explanations from Canada," said Rousseff, via Twitter. Because many Canadian companies are active in Brazil's mining industry, the spying could be a clear case of industrial espionage, Rousseff said.

"The United States and its allies must immediately stop their spying activity once and for all," she tweeted.

The report broadcast on Sunday by TV Globo, which gave no evidence that any strategic data had been intercepted, follows earlier disclosures by the network that the NSA snooped on the emails and phone calls of Rousseff herself. The network also reported that the NSA hacked into the computers of Brazil's state-run oil company Petrobras ....

 

[V_I_Lenin]

Bill Robinson's blog Lux Ex Umbra on the CSE is always worth a read...

http://luxexumbra.blogspot.ca/